Bypass filter for dewatering and possibly for Poly issues

[craigcurtin]

Guys,

Over on the Toyota surf forum there is an interesting read about a guy who has added a Bypass filter to his cars engine oil system.

The bypass filter essentially takes a small amount of the oil circulating through the cars engine and filters it on each pass (whilst still having the main filter doing the grunt work)

Anyway to cut a long story short the developer of the product got onto the forum and started interacting - one of the interesting things he mentioned was that the filter will removed suspended water from an emulsion - and he quoted the use of it for SVO.

So i thought of two uses for this - 1) the final polishing stage for your fuel before you put it into the car (circulate with a pump for an hour or so before hand to make sure it really is dry) and 2) it may also have application in its intended role onboard of bypass filtering - hopefully this would remove the Polymerisation build up that we all have nightmares about (and potentially dramatically reduce the need for engine oil changes from every 5000km)

The product is www.jackmaster.com.au

Seems to be reasonably priced at $120 or so, plus the cost of the pipes (if you are using it in your car) - would not take long to pay for itself if we could move our engine filter and oil changes back out to 20,000Km or so

The discussion on the Surf forums is at

Toyota 4WD Surf Owners :: View topic - By Pass Filter Installed - now checking it out

I am going to get one for the onboard application to start with and will report back

regards

Craig

[froggo]

Re: Bypass filter for dewatering and possibly for Poly issues

Hi everyone,

oh no, it's the return of the dunny roll filter.

Never heard of them removing water before.

God bless froggo.

[Johnnojack]

Re: Bypass filter for dewatering and possibly for Poly issues

After using one of these to filter my oil at home I headed to the Flinders Ranges with my filtered fuel. After about 300ks my on board filter blocked up, then I changed it and it blocked again. The diesel filter also blocked. Was a bit of a drama but eventually got home. Discovered the bypass filter had formed what is known as 'tracks' and was not filtering a drop. Further forum hours revealed they are known to do that with vege oil.
My advice: don't use it on vege, do what I have done and put it on the engine to bypass filter the engine oil where it will work brilliantly.

[froggo]

Re: Bypass filter for dewatering and possibly for Poly issues

Hi Johnnojack,

so do you use the filter that they sell for the unit or do you use a dunny roll in them.

If they remove some of the carbon from our engine oil and extend it's life the filters could be good value.

God bless froggo.

[Johnnojack]

Re: Bypass filter for dewatering and possibly for Poly issues

Yes I use the filter that is made for it. It is like a high quality tightly wrapped dunny roll and is a real bitch to get in the casing. I use a piston ring compressor and it is still hard. It does seem to extend the oil life somewhat. 3000ks from an oil change the oil is still not black.

[craigcurtin]

Re: Bypass filter for dewatering and possibly for Poly issues

Dave,

I think the carbon removal is a bit to do with the constant polishing of the oil and it continually circulates - possibly the same concept as when we polish through a set of filters over and over.

Interesting that most people do not think there is much to the ability to remove water - i think i will use it for its primary purpose of bypass filtering and then do some adhoc testing with dewatering and report back.

What do people think (when used in a bypass capacity) about the idea of stopping polymerisation by removing the thickening components in the oil as it starts to happen ?

Craig

[Johnnojack]

Re: Bypass filter for dewatering and possibly for Poly issues

Now that is ingenuity !
If they are that tight it's surprising they still track.


That is pretty impressive! From what I understand the carbon is 10th's or even 100th's of a micron so it must be filtering incredibly fine.

The piston ring trick was told to me by the agent who sold it to me. When I told him it was still very hard to get in he said I should get a truck piston ring compressor as they would cover more of the filter length.

The paper element seemed to take on a different property with vege oil, it went kinda soft and plasticywith a track you could put a pencil down
When used on engine oil the element remains very firm and consistent across the filter even after 10,000km. ( I went 50,000km without an oil change on my Nissan Commodore, changing paper filters every 5-7Kkm )
As for the carbon I think it works but isn't miraculous. My motor always took a while to turn the oil black, not like my mates 3.9 Isuzu Landrover County which would turn new oil as black as tar in 5 minutes

Craig if you have any concerns about your engine oil thickening collect some in jar when you drain the oil and bung it in the fridge. I have done it a few times and the oil has stayed quite normal when cold.

[Tony From West Oz]

Re: Bypass filter for dewatering and possibly for Poly issues

As a bypass filter, there is very little engine oil flowing thru the filter.

As a fuel filter, the whole of the fuel flow to the IP needs to pass thru the filter. This high flow is most likely responsible for the tracking.

Similarly if you were to try to use it as a full flow engine oil filter, tracking would be a major problem.

Regards,
Tony

[Johnnojack]

Re: Bypass filter for dewatering and possibly for Poly issues

As a bypass filter, there is very little engine oil flowing thru the filter.

As a fuel filter, the whole of the fuel flow to the IP needs to pass thru the filter. This high flow is most likely responsible for the tracking.

Similarly if you were to try to use it as a full flow engine oil filter, tracking would be a major problem.

Regards,
Tony

Tony when I used it to filter vege oil it was connected to a pressurised tank of oil at max 30psi and was left to do its thing overnight. It was slow, yet it proved to be no good. It was a not on the vehicle as a fuel filter, I agree you could not get the flow. To use one as a full flow oil filter would probably need about 500psi
As I said the properties of the element were altered by vege oil yet engine oil shows no signs of breaking down the paper element.

[jackmaster bypass filters]

Re: Bypass filter for dewatering and possibly for Poly issues

There was something similar mentioned on another forum recently and the same thoughts apply here.

One would assume that the "fuel" contained more oil than water. That being the case, the element is going to be completely oil saturated before the water hits it. I cannot fathom how an oil soaked piece of paper or cloth or anything else is going to attract and hold water when it is full of oil ?? If I take some paper towel and saturate it with oil, it will actually repel water. Same with a piece of cloth.
Conversely, if the element were soaked with water, I can't see it attracting oil or the water being replaced with oil.

For these reasons I am highly skeptical of the products ability to remove any water free, dissolved or otherwise from our fuel.

Hi forum members. I am Jackmaster Oil Filters and I manufacture and supply bypass oil filters. I am here to answer any questions you may have on bypass filtration.
Regarding the removal of water from engine oil or hydraulic or mineral oil:
The paper roll bypass filter will remove all water from mineral oil in one pass. It is natural to think that the oil in the roll would repel the water but this is not the case. This type of filter has been used for decades to remove water from oil. There are 3 kinds of water contamination found in oil. Free water, dissolved water and emulsified water. Freewater will sink to the bottom. Dissolved water is a very tiny percentage and the filter will remove it. Emulsified water is the biggest problem. I did exhaustive testing on the removal of water using bypass filtration alongside a very expensive Alfa Laval centrifuge worth over $25000 dollars and weighing about 400 Kgs. The centrifuge removed free water very well. It did not appear to remove any significant quantity of emulsified water and therefore would have removed no dissolved water.
The filter which was about 600mm long and contained 3 toilet rolls removed all emulsified water and, I assume, dissolved water, in one pass. The free water, I separated before passing the oil through the filter, as I did not want to overload the paper rolls. When this happens the filter simply stops passing oil. Centrifuges require demulsifiers etc., to separate emulsified water from oil. The oil water bond must be broken. They are excellent for taking out free water and of course they will take out emulsified water if you use the right chemicals or demulsifier equipment.
The paper rolls work on the principle of absorption and adsorption. The fibres of the paper adhere to particles while, at the same time, they absorb water. Emulsified oil has a milky appearance which is caused by tiny globules of water encased in oil. The oil molecules are large while the water molecules are small. Even though the paper becomes saturated with oil it cannot absorb the oil molecules as they are too large. They only serve to enhance the strength of the paper. At the same time the oil film on the water globules is breached and the fibres absorb water. Paper can absorb twice its own weight of water.
In the tests I did, using hydraulic oil emulsified with water to the maximum degree, all water was removed in one pass.
I am not able to comment on the ability of the filter to remove water from SVO as I have done no tests on this. From reading your posts I can only assume that the glycerine content in the SVO is becoming trapped in the roll along with absorbed water. Not absorbed itself but attached to the water molecules in such a way as to create a complete blockage. The affinity glycerine has for water is certainly the reason for this problem. On the other hand I would expect the bypass filter to work very well with bio diesel as all glycerine has been removed. Thank you for the valuable content of this forum. When I have time I will certainly do tests to determine exactly what takes place under the conditions we have been discussing.
Jackmaster Oil Filters.