Blends - Again

[Socrates]

I'm interested to hear an update on blends and successes or lack thereof. Also, where you are located is interesting for what sort of blend you use.
Currently I have settled on either 100% SVO or a blend of about 2 to 3% ULP. This is during warm weather in Canberra and I am experiencing success to a high degree.
A test to and from work confirms that the Hilux performs better up hills (ie faster) on 100% SVO than dino. (About 5km - 8km faster on the average hill.) It performs slightly better again with the ULP blend.

Thoughts?

[Johnnojack]

Re: Blends - Again

I'm interested to hear an update on blends and successes or lack thereof. Also, where you are located is interesting for what sort of blend you use.
Currently I have settled on either 100% SVO or a blend of about 2 to 3% ULP. This is during warm weather in Canberra and I am experiencing success to a high degree.
A test to and from work confirms that the Hilux performs better up hills (ie faster) on 100% SVO than dino. (About 5km - 8km faster on the average hill.) It performs slightly better again with the ULP blend.

Thoughts?

Unless you need that little bit of extra performance from adding ULP why bother It's summer

[Socrates]

Re: Blends - Again

Unless you need that little bit of extra performance from adding ULP why bother It's summer

Absolutely! I agree. Last few batches have been 100% veg. I must say though that that ULP does give you that bit extra. That said, it is a pretty good feeling knowing you are not using any fossil fuels at all!

[catq]

Re: Blends - Again

The cooler weather is just a month or so away it will be interesting if you are still successful when the temperatures start dropping. You still have time to think of some adjustments if you really need them.

[cgoodwin]

Re: Blends - Again

Are you running a heated system? Single tank? Dual tank?

[Socrates]

Re: Blends - Again

Are you running a heated system? Single tank? Dual tank?

I have pics up on another thread somewhere of my system.

It is a heated system - goes through 2 heat exchangers and a GP heater just to be sure. Still, 70C is about average in normal Canberra conditions.

I have two tanks, yes.

[Alga]

Re: Blends - Again

I'm interested to hear an update on blends and successes or lack thereof. Also, where you are located is interesting for what sort of blend you use.
Currently I have settled on either 100% SVO or a blend of about 2 to 3% ULP. This is during warm weather in Canberra and I am experiencing success to a high degree.
A test to and from work confirms that the Hilux performs better up hills (ie faster) on 100% SVO than dino. (About 5km - 8km faster on the average hill.) It performs slightly better again with the ULP blend.

Thoughts?

As far as blends are concerned there's a lot of conjecture, but pure logic to me is the best approach. I've tried them all over the years and go by what I've learnt and observed.

To me the only blends to use are either BD/VO or dino/VO or dino/BD, which I use in winter and on my boat at 10%. I go on the logic you can put all these straight into your engine and it will work, but ULP won't so it's not satisfactory as a blend. Except to lower the gel point of dino and not for any other reason.

I've never met anyone who gets a long life out of their engine on ULP blends, they are not suited for a diesel system except under extreme conditions and short periods. I ran a 3.3 turbo patrol on a ULP blend and gave up after about 30000klms because of filtering, running and slow clogging of the oil system. I asked my mate about this and he say it's because ULP creates more blow by therefore putting more VO into the oil system, something to do with differing flash points. For turbo's this is fatal.

My HJ60 has run on this formula for more than 280000 klm and the engine has done more than 500000, I use one, barrel HE, throw away filter before the main and manual changeover. We keep going to rebuild the engine but it just keeps on going, burns little oil and is only slow on hills. All you have to do is keep it simple, flush your engine and fuel system regularly and stick with fuels designed for the fuel system. Then motoring will be hassle free and pleasurable.

[Socrates]

Re: Blends - Again

As far as blends are concerned there's a lot of conjecture, but pure logic to me is the best approach. I've tried them all over the years and go by what I've learnt and observed.

To me the only blends to use are either BD/VO or dino/VO or dino/BD, which I use in winter and on my boat at 10%. I go on the logic you can put all these straight into your engine and it will work, but ULP won't so it's not satisfactory as a blend. Except to lower the gel point of dino and not for any other reason.

I've never met anyone who gets a long life out of their engine on ULP blends, they are not suited for a diesel system except under extreme conditions and short periods. I ran a 3.3 turbo patrol on a ULP blend and gave up after about 30000klms because of filtering, running and slow clogging of the oil system. I asked my mate about this and he say it's because ULP creates more blow by therefore putting more VO into the oil system, something to do with differing flash points. For turbo's this is fatal.

My HJ60 has run on this formula for more than 280000 klm and the engine has done more than 500000, I use one, barrel HE, throw away filter before the main and manual changeover. We keep going to rebuild the engine but it just keeps on going, burns little oil and is only slow on hills. All you have to do is keep it simple, flush your engine and fuel system regularly and stick with fuels designed for the fuel system. Then motoring will be hassle free and pleasurable.

They are a fair enough comment Alga. I'd be interested to see what Dave has to say about the second paragraph though.

As for me - I'm not sure if I agree yet with a bio/wvo blend. I think this is a potential cause of the "mysterious white gunk."

The cooler weather is just a month or so away it will be interesting if you are still successful when the temperatures start dropping. You still have time to think of some adjustments if you really need them.

No real argument here. It has to get really cold though first and I need to notice my gauges indicating trouble before I begin blending.

[Alga]

Re: Blends - Again

They are a fair enough comment Alga. I'd be interested to see what Dave has to say about the second paragraph though.

As for me - I'm not sure if I agree yet with a bio/wvo blend. I think this is a potential cause of the "mysterious white gunk."

No real argument here. It has to get really cold though first and I need to notice my gauges indicating trouble before I begin blending.

I'm only going on more than 30 years of mucking round with this stuff, I don't say I'm right but I have seen many vehicles over the years and all the poeple I came across who blended with ULP either gave it up because of the problems, or the car did.

I don't get white gunk since super heating my oil, but it was more prevalent when blending with ULP. I don't even think it's worth arguing about, ULP was and is used to thin Dino, not VO. I only blend with dino when I run out of BD or on the road, in the middle of winter with below freezing temps, I blend to 20% BD/VO. I've seen dino gel here but never vo or BD, however it does get pretty thick and that's why I blend with BD.

In all my test blends, some have been sitting for more than 5 years, the only ones that show white gunk when you shake them is ULP blends.

What people may not consider is using blends when you are doing short trips. Vehicles which do lots of short trips tend to wear their engines quicker because the engine never heats up enough to fully bed the pistons and rings, so you get more blow by. If my engineer mate is right, then a ulp blend will increase blow by, therefore adding VO straight to the sump and oil system and the older the engine the more blow by. Considering the temps in sumps, that's where you see glazing, polymerisation and clogging.

My old HJ60 uses very little oil on long trips, but when it's used to run back and forth to the wharf or around the property, it eats it. Still each to his own way of doing things, so if it works for you, go for it.

Other than flush and change filters, I haven touched my HJ60 fuel system or engine for years.

[Socrates]

Re: Blends - Again

Thanks Alga.

What do you mean though by "super heating" your oil?

[PeterAC]

Re: Blends - Again

Read here Socrates

http://www.biofuelsforum.com/making_biodiesel/6948-heating_drying_set_up.html

Peter<><

[Alga]

Re: Blends - Again

Thanks Alga.

What do you mean though by "super heating" your oil?

I heat my oil to 210deg C, after that temp, it begins to vaporise and gets dangerous, that's when you get fires in kitchens. The theory behind it is to remove all the water, it also thins and changes the make up in some way. I've also found I can put any type of oil or lard in the heater and the titration comes out the same once super heated. BD making is easy with well heated oil, no water or soap at all in the finished product.

Most VO users don't heat their oil at all so bound water will still be there and you cant get rid of it even by heating to 180deg. If you could then there'd be no water in any oil which was heated to the recommended 180deg for cooking. However real chefs use hot oils because they want the oil to cook the food, not saturate it. You can always tell the quality of the cooks, by the quality of the used oil, the cleaner it is the better the food and the same goes for an engine. Really clean water free oil give a better outcome and the more you heat it to a point, the cleaner and drier it becomes.

The only problem I have with my oil is getting throw away filters to last more than 2000 klms as nothing I do seems to get rid a fine brown build up in the throw away filter even when I filter it to 1 micron, my main filter is free of it and it makes no difference to the performance. I put it down to a reaction in the fuel system caused by temp changes, but that's just a theory and an excuse to not look and further so the problem is not a problem.

Alga

[quicksilver]

Re: Blends - Again

Could heating the oil this hot make charcoal where you get the black stuff from? I dried some oil on a fire andit got too hot and caught fire and it was dirty no matter how much I put it in the filters.

[Alga]

Re: Blends - Again

Could heating the oil this hot make charcoal where you get the black stuff from? I dried some oil on a fire andit got too hot and caught fire and it was dirty no matter how much I put it in the filters.

If your oil catches on fire, then you will get charcoal, but super heating it doesn't make it burn the actual boiling point for VO is well above 300 deg but the flash pint is much lower at about 220 deg.

I believe the brown stuff I get is from the cooking process and whats in it. We've tried unused oil and it didn't produce the brown stuff, in fact it turned out really good oil with no problems at all. However thats' a very expensive exercise unless you grow your own oil seed. I've tried that and even though we got a lot of seed, the process and hassle isn't really worth the effort when we can get used oil free and in abundance.

If we can ever afford a good cheap press we'll give it another go.

[Socrates]

Re: Blends - Again

Read here Socrates

http://www.biofuelsforum.com/making_biodiesel/6948-heating_drying_set_up.html

Peter<><

Ahhh - in with the bio diesel mob!!

A good read thanks.