12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

[cuppatea]

Hi all,
Can I get some recommendations on a 12v fuel pump I can mount at the tank end to push veg up to my VE pump. Patrol 4.2TD. From my reading on the Patrol forum it looks like this has to deliver LESS than 10PSI at the IP inlet. Haven't measured the flow rate through my IP yet.
Some manufacturers/brands at least would be handy so I can search for them on the forum. Searches for fuel pump and lift pump are way too broad.
A suitable pump needs to stop back flow through itself when it is turned off.
Thanks

[cuppatea]

Re: 12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

Looks like I can see an assortment of Walbro, Carter, Holley and No-name pumps.
I guess it all depends on in/outlet size, gph/lpm and if they are at all compatible with diesel/veg.

[Johnnojack]

Re: 12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

How did you decide you need one? The VE pump can pull enough suction to collapse a 20l plastic drum.

[shiner]

Re: 12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

Hi all,
Can I get some recommendations on a 12v fuel pump

A suitable pump needs to stop back flow through itself when it is turned off.
Thanks

Hi Cuppa try this one a Fedtro possibly a facet copy (link)

I just installed one tonight in my 6.2 gm powered HJ75 as I was suffering fuel starvation issues (I do run Bio not veg at the moment) now its great full power throughout the rev range
They state on the listing, Fuel Types - All Gasoline, Petrol, Diesel, Methanol, Ethanol. 4 to 6 psi. Delivery of 130+ litres an hour.
But this said this pump is fairly well untested as its only been in the car for a few hours.
I just checked the second one I bought to use with the veg conversion and there is no back flow though the pump.
I thought the the price was low enough to give it a go.

If you like I will test the second pump with room temp veg oil tomorrow and let you know how I get on

Cheers shiner

[cuppatea]

Re: 12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

Hi JJack, I am still pursuing the idea of using 2 electric pumps at the tanks instead of a 3 way valve to change between fuels. Will use a Tee just before the IP. Will also use a pressure regulator up that end to bleed off excess pressure to the return flow/line back to the tanks. I'll adjust the regulator to keep as low a pressure I can from the IP inlet. Maybe even a catch tank instead of the regulator but would prefer the regulator and closed systems instead.
The elect pump idea also is a bonus to take some load off the VE. There is also the possibility of using the same basic design with one pump on the Veg line and a non return only on the diesel line (letting the VE handle the diesel).

Good to see some experimentation Shiner. Let us know how you go. Not familiar with your engine/pump but it's my understanding with the mechanical VE on my Patrol that a pump that can provide 5L/min is a good guideline. Your particular one is good for about half that. Some Patrol owners have put 2 of yours in parallel to achieve more flow. A looped return would reduce the need for high flow but doesn't suite my design requirements for reducing purge time. There is also suggestion that messing with flow/pressure with my VE can confuse the pumps advance mechanisms but that's another story...

[Tim-HJ61]

Re: 12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

If you are prepared to go to that extent, running a pressure regulator etc., then a continuous duty gear pump will provide the high volume and flow that you feel you need.

One of the forum members swears by the FASS pump. Expensive, but effective. FASSride > Home

A personal opinion is if you can reduce the load on your VE by installing large or heated fuel lines to minimise viscosity, then pumps aren't necessary.

T

[Matt]

Re: 12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

Walbro FRB5 I think, I have one on my 80 series for bio, its a low pressure pump, can run against a dead outlet. Is variable and will tolerate bio and SVO. Are you making sure the SVO is liquid and what temp will it operate, this you will need to check. About $150 from the US.

Matt

[cuppatea]

Re: 12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

That Fassride website is awful. The webmaster needs a rocket.
Not keen on spending huge dollars. I'm looking at running low pressure to the IP. Not sure what they cost I got frustrated with their site.
The Walbro is a popular option. My veg stays liquid, no issue there.

[gonzalo]

Re: 12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

I use a Facet SS503 for the start up fuel. It stalls at 7psi and max flow rate is 1.5l/min.
It should ideally be placed close to the tank as it works better "pushing" than "pulling".
While the pump is designed for petrol I have used it with diesel for 4 years now and it hasn´t missed a beat.
It can pump agaisnt a close valve and it does not allow reverse flow. It does allow the fuel to flow in the right direction when it is off.
I paid 80Euros, which must be something like AUD110.

I have tried to attach a photo but for some time now I have been unable to do so in this web page.

Regards
gonzalo

[cuppatea]

Re: 12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

Thanks for the info Gonzalo. I have a similar Facet here too but it's not currently used. I'm assuming your vehicle uses a injector pump that has a very low flow rate as 1.5l/min is very low. I have yet to actually test the flow myself of this VE pump but from what I'm told it will be much higher than 1.5l/min. The result would then be fuel starvation. The solutions to this would be some form of looped return to feed the VE but I'm trying to lean away from that this time around to reduce purge times. Thanks again.

[Johnnojack]

Re: 12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

Thanks for the info Gonzalo. I have a similar Facet here too but it's not currently used. I'm assuming your vehicle uses a injector pump that has a very low flow rate as 1.5l/min is very low. I have yet to actually test the flow myself of this VE pump but from what I'm told it will be much higher than 1.5l/min. The result would then be fuel starvation. The solutions to this would be some form of looped return to feed the VE but I'm trying to lean away from that this time around to reduce purge times. Thanks again.

Cuppa, Gonzalo has a different type of pump, he may have his factory pump doing the vege and the electric pump doing diesel. The VE pump has to do both as it can't be bypassed. If your oil is liquid and your inlet is at least 10mm ID then a pump is an unneccesary, expensive and complicating extra component which can also fail on the road. I agree with Tim and reckon you'd be better off without it.
Also looping the vege doesn't mean any longer purge time at all. Set up so you can switch supply and return separately it should be the same as a non looped system. With a looped veg system the fuel coming from the tank only equals what the engine is using, which may be a max of one litre per minute (thats 60l/100km at 100km/hr) so more like 0.5 l/min

[Nuddy]

Re: 12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

Hi all,
Can I get some recommendations on a 12v fuel pump I can mount at the tank end to push veg up to my VE pump. Patrol 4.2TD. From my reading on the Patrol forum it looks like this has to deliver LESS than 10PSI at the IP inlet. Haven't measured the flow rate through my IP yet.
Some manufacturers/brands at least would be handy so I can search for them on the forum. Searches for fuel pump and lift pump are way too broad.
A suitable pump needs to stop back flow through itself when it is turned off.
Thanks

Actually less than 7 psi at the IP inlet.
Reading on the Patrol forum you will find that many owners experience benefits from a pusher pump on the 4.2TD even running on dino diesel.
I use the walbro on my 4.2TD which I run only on dino these days. I have been running a walbro for SVO use for 3 years and 100,000km firstly on a 1HZ toyota and then on a Nissan RD28T.
The Carter and the Holley pumps mentioned on the Patrol forum apparently do not work well on WVO.

[cuppatea]

Re: 12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

Thanks Nuddy. I have read a substantial amount of your and others posts on patrol4x4. Was wondering if those were tried with veg. I didn't know the Carter unit was less desirable for use with veg. Thanks for that. One one hand the VE colapses a drum with it's power and on the other hand some patrol owners find their drive starving at full load..... Either way, a pump that can provide positive pressure is the only way my design is going to work, any beneficial help to the VE is a bonus.

[cuppatea]

Re: 12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

Thanks jjack, I have run looped on my old mk patrol to good effect. My current design idea uses a pressure pump, the VE as a suction pump and 1 pollack for return distribution. I'll have another look at incorporating looped on the veg side but I want to avoid as many pollacks and solenoids as I can.

[gonzalo]

Re: 12V Fuel Lift Pump Suggestions

Thanks for the info Gonzalo. I have a similar Facet here too but it's not currently used. I'm assuming your vehicle uses a injector pump that has a very low flow rate as 1.5l/min is very low. I have yet to actually test the flow myself of this VE pump but from what I'm told it will be much higher than 1.5l/min. The result would then be fuel starvation. The solutions to this would be some form of looped return to feed the VE but I'm trying to lean away from that this time around to reduce purge times. Thanks again.

Hello there,

My car is a Merc 190 with a 2.0l Diesel engine, which is a bit small compared to what you are used to down under.
Like Johnnojack says I only use the Facet pump for the start up fuel, so even if the max flow rate is small it does the job. Actually the car only shows signs of starvation once in the motorway and beyond the speed limit.
On a couple of occasions I have forgotten to turn the pump on and it seems that the inline pump develops enough suction on its own, this is, without the mechanical lift pump, to pull enough fuel to keep the car going up to 80km/h or so.
Let us know how you go.

Cheers
gonzalo