is the use of wvo illegal

[bloodviper Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bloodviper]

hey guys just chating to a mate to day that was saying the use of wvo is illegal is it true or not and how do most of you guys go with rego and insurence with the wvo conversions on the cars

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: is the use of wvo illegal

Viper,
There is no issue with the legality of using used cooking oil as a diesel fuel.

There are some issues with transporting the used cooking oil in some states, but the legislation is aimed at transporting large volumes of the "controlled waste" and any reasonable officer of the EPA in your state would have no issue with you transporting 300L or so of used cooking oil.
That said, you are still responsible for any spills and any environmental cleanup needed following any spill. My advice is that if you have a spill, do a good job of cleaning it up yourself, before it becomes an issue.

Back on the topic:
The only issue which could cause a problem, is if you blend the cooking oil with an excisable fuel like diesel, biodiesel or petrol. Even kerosine and Avation Turbine Kerosine are excisable. You then fall foul of the Excise section of the Tax Act and the Excise Officers have pretty wide ranging powers of access and search of your property to determine if a breach of the law is being carried out.

While they do have the power, and penalties are possibly severe, there is little advantage in the Excise branch spending a lot of money to prove you added 5% pertol to your cooking oil and used it in your diesel car for 10 000km. The avoided excise would be in the order of $400, and any penalty would need to be of a similar order (unless they were seeking to make an example (read as scapegoat) of someone to scare others from doing it.

Have fun and drive with peace of mind.

Tony

[bloodviper Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bloodviper]

Re: is the use of wvo illegal

than you for putting my mind at ease so now i can keep driving with out worrying i only ever carry 10 ltr spare in the car at any one time

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

Re: is the use of wvo illegal

We have veggie users in some European countries who are not so fortunate as us, and it is illegal to use WVO in their vehicles. France is one of these countries.

The style of their most common IP's leads to blending being the most common option for the brave souls who venture down this path, but if they get stopped because of the different smell of the exhaust and their tank dipped, they can be fined an amount proportionate to the number of kms the car has done from new!!

So whilst what Tony is saying is correct for Australia, whoever you've been talking to may have picked up some information from Europe where the rules are quite different.

One of the reasons I went to a two tank system was to ensure I didn't fall foul of any vehicle laws here in Australia.

The other issue is the rules of your local authority with regard storing your fuel on your property. When I have made tentative enquiries, the response was basically NO you can't store 1600 litres of cooking oil at your home. When asked on what basis they could say that, I was told the underpinning rule of the local government act is that what goes on in a residential area should be of a residential type nature. And they would argue that storing that quantity was not 'of a residential type nature'.

I chose not to argue the point and stopped the conversation before they could trace my phone call, given the generally officious, vindictive and narrow minded nature I find common in that level of government.

In the words of the famous frog - it's hard being green!

Tim

[cuppatea Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close cuppatea]

Re: is the use of wvo illegal

If I was in France I'd be proficient at winding back my odometer...
I would imagine all forms of insurance on you motor vehicle are in danger if conversions are discovered. I'm pretty sure any modifications of this nature in some states deem the vehicle un-roadworthy. If anyone was involved in a serious accident with loss of property or life I don't think the insurance company would hesitate to wash their hands of it.
Officially my conversion is for running in alpine/cold climates and bio. That's what all those pipes are for....

[Socrates Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Socrates]

Re: is the use of wvo illegal

It sounds like part of your question has been well answered.

The issue of insurance however is a tough one.

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

Re: is the use of wvo illegal

We've got at least one of our veggie fuelers in WA gone over the pits with a full fat conversion and a jerry can mounted in the boot as his start up tank. He's got a certificate stating the mod is acceptable.

Tim

[craigcurtin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close craigcurtin]

Re: is the use of wvo illegal

Soc,

I am with Real Insurance (and Just Cars before that)

I fully detailed to them in a letter what my mods entailed and changes made to my cars and also the fact that i had a roadworth cert from the mechanic - made them write back to me to confirm they had it and were happy - no worries at all

Their credo - as long as the car is legal then they are happy

C

[algaeoil Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close algaeoil]

Re: is the use of wvo illegal

i reckon if you had a crash, and an assesor could see that the car was given motion by something other than what gets sold at the pump, it would be called a modification and put your policy out real quick.

[Bueff Biofuel Enthusiast Find all posts View Profile Close Bueff]

Re: is the use of wvo illegal

Viper,
There is no issue with the legality of using used cooking oil as a diesel fuel.

There are some issues with transporting the used cooking oil in some states, but the legislation is aimed at transporting large volumes of the "controlled waste" and any reasonable officer of the EPA in your state would have no issue with you transporting 300L or so of used cooking oil.
That said, you are still responsible for any spills and any environmental cleanup needed following any spill. My advice is that if you have a spill, do a good job of cleaning it up yourself, before it becomes an issue.

Back on the topic:
The only issue which could cause a problem, is if you blend the cooking oil with an excisable fuel like diesel, biodiesel or petrol. Even kerosine and Avation Turbine Kerosine are excisable. You then fall foul of the Excise section of the Tax Act and the Excise Officers have pretty wide ranging powers of access and search of your property to determine if a breach of the law is being carried out.

While they do have the power, and penalties are possibly severe, there is little advantage in the Excise branch spending a lot of money to prove you added 5% pertol to your cooking oil and used it in your diesel car for 10 000km. The avoided excise would be in the order of $400, and any penalty would need to be of a similar order (unless they were seeking to make an example (read as scapegoat) of someone to scare others from doing it.

Have fun and drive with peace of mind.

Tony

Hi there

if I get it right, you are not allowed to run a 50 / 50 mix of wvo and diesel?
but it would be okay to run 100% of it or BD?

happy easter everyone!!!

Jens

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: is the use of wvo illegal

Jens,
My reply did not mention biodiesel as it was not part of the question.

Biodiesel is subject ot excise and you would need to visit Australian Taxation Office Homepage and search for the excise payable on biodiesel. I believe there was a gradual transition from 0 a few years ago, to about the same as Diesel.

So 100% WVO = OK - no excise payable,
WVO Blends with Diesel / Petrol / Biodiesel / Kero <> OK unless excise paid.
Biodiesel <> OK unless excise paid.

I hope this helps,

Tony

[3DB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 3DB]

Re: is the use of wvo illegal

Hi Tony & Tim,

Just reading your earlier posts and was wondering if anything has changed since 2011 in Australia? In summary:
* Biodiesel or WVO blended with an exciseable fuel (including ULP, petro-diesel and bio) = subject to excise tax; and
* Straight WVO = not subject to excise tax.

Regards,

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: is the use of wvo illegal

I have not heard anything to contradict that advice.

Tony

[3DB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 3DB]

Re: is the use of wvo illegal

In the arguably unlikely event that someone from the ATO might wish to take action against a backyard producer and user biodiesel who is not paying excise, how might they differentiate between biodiesel and WVO? Test the fuel for residual methanol or caustic (or absence of glycerol)? Inspect the premises for stores of the same?

A lot of work for little gain, you'd have to argue. And I'm guessing no one has ever heard of any small-time bio users being busted in Australia?

3DB

[peter1 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close peter1]

Re: is the use of wvo illegal

Potential bleatings of self appointed moral police and do gooders, there is no one monitoring payment for blending with excerciseable fuels or Biodiesel production. It is a rules which the gubbermint knows would cost much more to enforce than would be worth while (especialy since the Biofuels fad has long passed and there are as few as ever people doing it) so like everything else which there is no benifit for the gubbermint for multiple reasons, they simply ignore it.
I can well imagine if by some miracle of bad luck you were infringed for a non payment of excise, if you went to the media and complained how you are using environementally green fuels trying to save emissions and do your bit for the planet and were peanilised with it, the matter would be dropped faster than a hot potato and you'd be let off with a warning.... or an apology! :0) It's all about playing the game.

I have never heard of anyone having their fuel tested and I have been pulled over by the police for the smell of my exhaust and told them what it was and had no problems either.
The last I heard, there was no one in the Gubbermint either policing or checking the payment for biofuel production excise. I did speak to someone a while back who played dumb and rang the RTA and tax department and only one person knew what he was talking about and as much as said not to worry about it.

Of course up to you but personaly I would not be worrying about this. If you are fconcerned, than a call to the Tax department to find out the reality of the situation for yourself would no doubt be a wise move.
You should always do the right thing and I would never condone breaking the law or upsetting moral do gooders and suffering their whingeing etc so that's my final advise if not what you'd probably want to follow. :0)