1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

[Jacko]

g day everyone
this is my fist post so bare with me

as the title says i have a 1hz cruiser ute with the 2 standerd 90 litre tanks.
and was wondering if there is anything stopping me from setting up the rear tank for svo?
im guessing everything is there to do it, all i have to do is heat the svo?
or is it not that straight forward.
Also is the 1hz up for the challenge?
any help would be very much appreciated cheers
Jacko

[Tim-HJ61]

Re: 1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

Correct.

The standard swap over valve is a long way back for purging, and may not do so well with veggie.

Make sure you have 12mm fuel lines to enable good flow

Consider looping the return on veggie to keep the heat under the bonnet.
If running a full fat conversion, loop the startup fuel too to avoid cross contamination.

15 ULP to 85 WVO is a good blend for a 1hz and requires no mods

Tim

[Jacko]

Re: 1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

thanks very much for the reply
so do you think if i ran 12mm lines it would purge the wvo?
will the wvo run through standered fuel lines if i set if i use the from tank instead that way it doesn't have to go as far?

[Jacko]

Re: 1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

ok so i have a 1hz engine
so my quistion is will my injection pump be alright for purging straght wvo? (or do i need another pump to help it?)
also wheres the best place for the heat exchange unit, close to the tank or in the engine bay some where?
thanks again for your patence and time for helping
cheers

[Tim-HJ61]

Re: 1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

thanks very much for the reply
so do you think if i ran 12mm lines it would purge the wvo?
will the wvo run through standered fuel lines if i set if i use the from tank instead that way it doesn't have to go as far?

Sorry mate, not following the question.

If you run start up fuel, diesel or biodiesel, through the same lines that have been carrying WVO, then yes, the WVO will be purged out of them and the lines will contain diesel AS LONG AS you have purged for long enough.

How long you need to purge for depends entirely on the setup you have and is only determined once you have installed everything. You can tell when the engine is running on WVO or diesel because of the sound the engine will make, and also from the exhaust if you blip the throttle. Black smoke = diesel.

Tim

[Tim-HJ61]

Re: 1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

ok so i have a 1hz engine
so my quistion is will my injection pump be alright for purging straght wvo? (or do i need another pump to help it?)
also wheres the best place for the heat exchange unit, close to the tank or in the engine bay some where?
thanks again for your patence and time for helping
cheers

IMHO you do not need an extra inline pump.
Others have different views. If you decide you need a pump, then you need to decide on what type of pump. There is a current thread discussing the same issue - what pump to choose.
First get yourself going and then see if you need a pump. If your IP is working fine, you probably don't.

Run a blend first and get yourself over the first confusing difficult stages before running 100% WVO.

Heat exchanger location should be close to the IP. It should be before the WVO filter.
In the past, master installer Fitian used to recommend another HE after the filter too.
If you live in a cold part of this great land, then you may need to heat your lines. but only do this if you have problems in winter when it's snowing. The amount of fuel needed by the engine is small enough to be sucked through 12mm lines quite okay in normal temperatures. Especially if you loop your return so you keep your hot oil in your engine bay. By looping your return, I mean to plumb your return line when running on WVO back into the line just before the filter and HE. Alternatively you could loop it near the fuel tank and have warmed fuel coming back up the fuel line from the back which would help move things along - depending on how much your IP actually returns to the tank in normal running.

Tim

[Jacko]

Re: 1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

thanks very much tim for your replys it gives me lots to think about.
I'm still undecided about how to heat the wvo though!
i have friend i have been quizing a few things about as well and he actually ran his
fuel line inside of a piece of heater hose, for roughly a meter and heated the wvo that way.
i was wondering if anyone else has done it this way? and what are your thoughts on this method of heating
instead of useing a heat exschange. it seems to me that it would
heat the wvo more then just having one heat exchange! though i have
no experience with heatexchanges and how effective they are.

cheers Jacko

[Jacko]

Re: 1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

thanks very much tim for your replies it gives me lots to think about.
I'm still undecided on how to heat the wvo.
i have a friend who is using wvo and i have been quizing him on it to.
he heats his by running his fuel line inside of a piece of heater hose for about a meter.
has anyone else used this method, and whats your opinion on this method?
then theres the other option of using a heat exchange unit!
it seems to me that it would heat up more using the fuel line in the heater hose,
but i have no experince with the heat exchange unit.(i understand that the heat exchange uses the heater hoses as well)
would be great hear from anyones expericne with either method.
thanks again Jacko

[Tim-HJ61]

Re: 1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

Hi Jacko,

Your mate has a hose in hose heater. They are effective at warming oil along the line.
Have a search for HIH or hose in hose

Jacko there are many sensible personalised solutions in the art of WVO use. With a 1hz you might get away with only a HIH, but I'd want to be installing a temperature gauge on the input line to your IP. I cannot imagine that one metre of of HIH would match the performance of a 30 plate heat exchanger, and for really not much cost, you can easily include one to make sure you're installing a great system.

Sounds like your mate has himself sorted. Does he measure the output of his HIH?
I get 100% per cent heat transfer with my 30 plate, that is, my oil output matches my coolant temperature.

IMHO, a HIH is great for a fat conversion or for cold conditions to assist flow along the lines. Is it adequate for a total conversion? Only a temperature gauge in the fuel flow will tell.

Tim

[tbird650]

Re: 1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

I used an 5metre(?) HIH for a couple of years or so. I didn't do any monitoring of temperatures but in my opinion an HIH isnt nearly as efficient as a FPHE.
The problem is partly to do with the amount of fuel passing over a given time. Testing showed that my Hiace had to pass 500ml a minute because
an amazingly large proportion of fuel gets returned to tank. Effectively the fuel moves too fast to be heated thoroughly.

[froggo]

Re: 1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

Hi Jacko,

I've converted a 1HZ 1994 Troopy which has been running for three years now on wvo.

We used the front tank for wvo and the back tank for diesel. Why? Less distance to suck the thicker wvo fuel. All half inch lines were used from tanks to pollack valve, did not use the original valve. Cav filter housing for diesel and wvo using a fleetguard filter and two 20 fphe's, did not use the original filter. The fphe's were located one before the wvo filter and one after with only 10cm of fuel line to the ip.

This system works well for it's owner and has resulted in happy, trouble free wvo motoring.

God bless, froggo.

[Jacko]

Re: 1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

hi froggo
thanks for your reply.
is there any reason why you steered away from using the original valve? or was in just not up to the job.
is it really necessary to use bigger fuel lines.
and have you got another fuel pump for purging or is the ip purging all right on its own?

cheers Jacko

[Tim-HJ61]

Re: 1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

hi froggo
thanks for your reply.
is there any reason why you steered away from using the original valve? or was in just not up to the job.
is it really necessary to use bigger fuel lines.
and have you got another fuel pump for purging or is the ip purging all right on its own?

cheers Jacko

Jacko,

You have some choices.
If you choose to follow the advice given by myself and Froggo, then you increase your chances of having an enjoyable relationship with WVO in your ute. Some of the things we suggest will cost money. This money will be recouped after a few tank fulls of WVO.
Do it properly in the beginning.

If you want to run a cheaper option, then you are more likely to have troubles that you will have to trouble shoot, be confused by, become wet in the rain by the side of the road on your way to an important appointment and all other manner of glitches that we have all experienced in our learning curve.

When you ask Froggo

is it really necessary to use bigger fuel lines

i'm getting the idea you're doubting what we are advising, when IMHO it would seem sensible to take our advice, gained over many kms and years of experience.

If you go back to the FAQ at the top of the forum, the reasons for larger fuel lines are given.

Taken from the Sticky - Conversion to WVO 101. Ten simple principles.

1. Ensure your fuel lines are of adequate size to allow easy flow of cold oil to the engine and not demand the lift pump suck too hard. If it does, fuel starvation is likely to occur. Some vehicles might get away with 10mm fuel lines. In most vehicles 12mm is quite adequate. 16mm is overkill for normal car and 4WD installations. Nitrile rubber and nylon air hose are commonly used.
2. Install a flat plate heat exchanger using the heater lines of the engine to heat the fuel. FPHE work better contra flow, with the coolant flowing the opposite direction to the oil. A FPHE is best mounted vertically but can be successful horizontal. Once air is expelled either orientation Is effective. Supplying the FPHE from heater connections at the rear of the motor is likely to provide hotter coolant than at the front of the motor. Insulation of the FPHE can be done with the leg of a wetsuit cut to suit, or a camping mat covered in waterproof tape and wrapped tightly.
   
3. Install a valve to select between diesel and WVO. This is best installed AFTER the vehicles standard fuel filter so if you have vege filter system problems, you can switch back to diesel to get yourself home. 6 way Pollak valves are most common and electric making it easy to mount a switch inside the car. Cable operated three way mechanical valves are also an option. Heavy duty solenoids from the hydraulics industry are another option. On one side of the three way valve is the WVO tank. Port two is the standard vehicle diesel fuel supply and port three is the outlet to the injection pump. A 6 port Pollak is simply two three port valves that are driven by the same motor. They are designed to switch diesel from main to auxiliary tanks with one set of ports being 10mm and the return 8mm. They are rated at 80°C maximum.
   Some people keep their system completely manual and have hand operated three way valves under the bonnet or in some other convenient location.

Best of luck with what you choose.

Tim

[froggo]

Re: 1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

Hi Jacko,

the vehicles I've had experience with needed the half inch fuel lines to reduce the amount stress on the lift pump/ip. Reduce the amount of vacuum/effort to suck wvo. Reduce distance and obstructions to make life easier for your ip. You do not want fuel starvation which can damage your ip.

Re; the original tank selector valve is weak and could die anytime on wvo. I chose to reduce the problem by replacing it.

Re; purge pump, no not required unless you want super quick fuel change over times.

If you use bigger lines, a new valve located in the engine bay like the vehicles I've converted then a pusher pump is not required unless your ip is cactus.

The info that Tim-HJ61 and I are giving is from trial and error from ourselves and others. We are trying to minimize your problems. Wvo is a experimental fuel and problems do occur, we are describing a system that you can copy if you choose too.

God less, froggo

[ironfarmer]

Re: 1hz cruiser ute with factory sub tank

hello all,
i've been running a 1hz troopy for 100,000 on oil with 3 system upgrades along the way to improved performance and reliability.

i now use the front tank for oil, as the exhaust raps around and the drive train is next to it for warmth.

i put a heat exchanger close to it, then a walbro pump with the cleanable pre-filter, ( i just fitted this and the cars goes better!; available from mercedessource.com, they were great too!) then to a cav type filter under the bonnet, then to a 2way ball valve down near the clutch pedal.

the diesel system is the rear tank to the original filter, (i removed the 2 3way valves under the car and i used the little one to switch the IP return between loop and front tank.

i found i could not bleed the system completely without this). from the diesel filter to the 2 way valve.

the common port of the valve then goes to another heat exchanger under the bonnet then into the IP, so both diesel and oil are heated prior to the IP.

i now use the rear tank switch for the return loop. i believe you really need to push the oil to the filter and pump. i'm not sure of a better filter than the cav because the elements are so cheap and i've had times when i've changed them often, though they are problematic with all the gaskets etc. all the other filter heads seem to have expensive elements?

my set up is fairly agricultural, though straight forward. i can reach down and feel the heat of the fuel coming through the valve.

i can see the condition of the oil in the glass bowl under the awful CAV filter.

i can pump up the engine side of the oil circuit by partially opening the 2way valve and pumping diesel through with the palm pump on top of the toyota filter. (a neat trick this when changing veg oil filters on the nasty CAV!) all in all it works for me and my hillbilly sentiment...