2 Tank Conversion Patrol TD42

[cuppatea]

[craigcurtin]

Re: 2 Tank Conversion Patrol TD42

How do you purge air out of the system (or is that not an issue with the Patrol ?) I know if i get air in my system (filter changes etc) i need to bleed the system or crank for quite a while with the return unlooped to get the air out ( i have both options incorporated on my suburban - a T Piece and valve just before the IP so i can purge air after a filter change or running out of fuel etc, or i can use a solenoid to do a return to tank (although this then gives me cross contamination as i only return to the startup tank)

Craig

[cuppatea]

Re: 2 Tank Conversion Patrol TD42

Filter change for either filter I backpurge/backflow using the Facet pump back to the Veg tank. (I added the Facet pump to the image, just noticed it missing).

Update: After designing this for 3+ years, it is now running and tested as working. I've only done a couple thousand km but I think the issues from here should be non-design related. The solenoids are actually motorised ball valves. All 3 valves will be automated once I make up the circuitry for them. I'll put some photos up soon.

[cuppatea]

Re: 2 Tank Conversion Patrol TD42

Hello folks, a year later now and on the weekend I completely removed all my Veg conversion. I'm back to running the expensive dino fuel. I probably did about 15,000km on veg without a single breakdown or on the road filter change. Unfortunately my decision to turn back (hopefully temporarily) was due to the Patrol not running on Veg to "my satisfaction". It was never happy running at low rpm through towns on long trips. 50km/hr through towns in 4th would show what seemed like "missing" or surging. Idle was low. When particularly cold it would even puff out blue smoke when missing. The biggest problem however is that I don't have time to work around or solve the issues. I personally think that both the IP and the injectors didn't like the Veg or the fuel looping. At one stage I thought it was related to the Veg not being hot enough. Well driving at 36C and being unable to touch anything metal under the bonnet pretty much dispelled that notion for me.

As I was pumping the Veg out of the tank on Saturday I did notice how slow it is to suck Veg from the tank. I used the standard fuel line from the main tank - factory it's a 3/8 steel line. Maybe in hindsight I needed to go bigger, but then I was looping my fuel at then engine end, there are some here using factory lines and not looping ... a debate for another time perhaps. So I thought I'd take a look and scraped off 14 years of dust from the top of the tank sender. Looked inside - super clean. Like a brand new tank. Pickup has no mesh. Nothing blocked anywhere.



I'm going to read up on making bio in my free time. I might give that a try when I have some time. It would be nice to be able to use the same fuel around town and on the long trips.

Below is some data I collected during an injector clean/purge from last month (which didn't help). The engine is not under load so real world driving rates will differ.

Nissan TD42T / Bosch VE - fuel return rates:
750rpm (idle) - 150ml/min
1000rpm - 210ml/min
1500rpm - 260ml/min
1800rpm - 300ml/min

One could guess here that at highway speed (2500rpm) the return rate is around 350ml/min. The return line on the Patrol is a tiny 1/4 inch line running what, 3-4m to the back of the car. Interesting.

Another lesson learned is keep all engine bay fuel hoses low or diagonally mounted to help air migrate....

Anyway, onward and upward.

[peter1]

Re: 2 Tank Conversion Patrol TD42

It was never happy running at low rpm through towns on long trips. 50km/hr through towns in 4th would show what seemed like "missing" or surging. I personally think that both the IP and the injectors didn't like the Veg or the fuel looping.

I'm on my 2nd patrol with the TD42. First one was NA, This one is Turbo.
First one had a Mega Coolant powered HE I built, a CAV Filter and a Walbro Pump. It also had issues on the highway. On a trip to central NSW I was loosing power to the point the thing would not go up hills faster than 20 KMH. I was running out of things to look at till I bypassed everything and ran the straight veg through a disposable Filter and straight into the IP. The thing took off like a stung cat and ran and continued to run better than ever. Should have never touched the thing but that was when I gave up on conversions for Veg.
Facet/ Walbro Pumps I tried are Not up to the consumption of the Mighty 4.2 and create a restriction at highway speeds and hills. CAV filters and disposables also pose a power limiting restriction. Heating the oil is just not needed but shouldn't pose a restriction IF the HE is adequately Sized.

On the Turblow I run a Subaru Fuel filter which is metal and is fed by the stock fuel lines from the tank to the engine bay. I use the stock tank and Straight Veg, not even with petrol this summer and with no probs. I am currently in the country and given the falling temps, today I sat the Fuel Filter on the manifold next to the turbo to give it enough heat to melt any fats out of the filter.

The current setup is mildly " Improved" running higher than stock boost, large exhaust and is fueled up. Suffice to say I can get on the freeway going north, put the thing in 5th and never drop below he speed limit even with the thing loaded up any hill. It has PLENTY more power in reserve but I have it turned down because I figure why pu more stress on he engine than what I need? Running the thing with the wick turned well up never gave me leaning problems like the NA had with the modifications. Same IP, Same engine. Without a trailer I regularly use 13-15l/ 100KM on trips and with a trailer up to 19L/100 depending on the load so the thing is sucking down the veg at a decent rate. Unless the filter is blocking, ( and that takes a while!) the thing never stutters or wont wind out. The NA used to regularly get 10-11L 100 but was as painful up hills as this one is satisfying.

Not sure if your Troll is Blown but mine is and making the most of it and the stock fuel lines and IP are adequate for the very healthy state of tune of my Vehicle and I am running straight and " cold" oil. Given the problems I had with a stock 4.2 with the traditional mods and the absolute lack of problems when I removed them and running the later, far more thirstier vehicle stock bar the Different Fuel Filter, I am convinced the normal mods are a complete detriment to this Vehicle setup. The NA I had for 2 winters with no trouble and no mods and going into my 2nd winter with the current turblown unit.

The stock lines and IP is certainly up to supplying a healthy engine if here are no extra restrictions in he system but if one were determined to add the usual veg mods, then more complication in the form of larger fuel lines may also be needed.

It needs o be noted however the weakness is in the extra load of the mods, not in any short comings of the stock setup.

[cuppatea]

Re: 2 Tank Conversion Patrol TD42

Mine is a '99 factory turbo. Completely stock.
I take it you have the same VE IP.
I had no additional pumps on my system to help the veg along. The Facet is on the diesel line to bleed the air out as the hand pump died on the filter housing - I cut it off and welded it up. The VE pump was doing all the sucking and by my calculations at 100km/hr was burning through 250ml/min of fuel. As the system was looping the return I had very little concern that the standard fuel lines were good enough.
Regarding restriction, yes the addition of HE and extra piping and fittings add some level of restriction. I tried to use 3/8 hoses everywhere in the engine bay - bigger than stock. When I was pumping all the veg from the tank as earlier mentioned with the facet pump last weekend, I pumped through the SD33 filter setup (veg side, long metal spin on filter) and the HE and said: "Wow that's slow. That will take hrs!" I thought the same thing - the filter is blocked or there is restriction. I bypassed the HE = same slow rate. I bypassed the filter too = same slow rate. My conclusion was then, veg through the stock lines all the way from the back of the car is slow. Too slow? Maybe, maybe not. According to your setup it's fine then.
I never had a blocking issue or power issue. I overtook B-Doubles at 140+ km/hr on veg without issue. My only issue was idle or slow running - 1500rpm or thereabouts. 50km/hr in 4th it was very noticeable. I also ran straight diesel through the veg side (sd33 filter and HE) and it ran normal. So the difference between veg and diesel through the same piping and components was a huge difference.

Anyway, like I said I wanted to go back to stock again and look into any other issues such as injectors or even valve seating issues that are sometimes an issue with the TD42. Once I'm happy with it 100% I will revisit.

[AmpeD]

Re: 2 Tank Conversion Patrol TD42

Im considering converting my 2004 td42 turbo intercooled ute to wvo, but reading this makes me unsure of what setup to go with. I'm in Perth so we are a bit warmer, what setup would you recommend I go with?

[Tony From West Oz]

Re: 2 Tank Conversion Patrol TD42

Im considering converting my 2004 td42 turbo intercooled ute to wvo, but reading this makes me unsure of what setup to go with. I'm in Perth so we are a bit warmer, what setup would you recommend I go with?

AmpeD,
Welcome to the forum.
I believe that your TD42 is a Common Rail Engine. Please correct me if my supposition is not correct. There are very few of the Common Rail Diesel (CRD) engines in Australia which have been converted to run on WVO.

I have just checked the Vehicles running on WVO, and find that there is a TD42 on the list, so please ignore my comments about it being a CRD.
Have a look at the linked threads to see what engines are currently using WVO http://www.biofuelsforum.com/threads...ed-Cooking-Oil
, Blends http://www.biofuelsforum.com/threads...end-of-WVO-and
and Biodiesel http://www.biofuelsforum.com/threads...s-mileage-time

As you are in WA, perhaps you would like to come along to a meeting of the WA Renewable Fuels association Inc.
We meet (usually) on the 2nd Sunday of each month (except for May, due to Mothers day) refer to the website http://warfa.asn.au for more details on Meeting dates and times. We usually have an hour or 2 to sit around and "chew the fat" on renewable fuels.

Regards,
Tony

[peter1]

Re: 2 Tank Conversion Patrol TD42

Im considering converting my 2004 td42 turbo intercooled ute to wvo, but reading this makes me unsure of what setup to go with. I'm in Perth so we are a bit warmer, what setup would you recommend I go with?

Keep things as simple as possible. Maybe a FPHE and if you want, another filter. Stock one is fine for veg just exy to replace which you may have to do more frequently with veg. Other than that, leave the thing alone and don't build in more problems than the non existent ones you'll be aiming to prevent.
The vehicle and fuel system is fine. Pay attention to making sure the quality of your oil is good.