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What types of oil are OK

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  • #1

    What types of oil are OK

    i am just getting started with making bio and have come across a potential problem. i have been collecting used cooking oil and it struck me that its animal fat and not veg oil. can bio be made using animal fat and if it can is it the same process as using veg oil.

    While im at it is there anything i should be looking out for as far as used oil goes?

    thanks Ben
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  • #2
    Re: What types of oil are OK

    Yes you can make bio from tallow (animal fat). I forgot to check where you live but you may want to use bio made from tallow only i summer. It will gell below 10 - 15 degrees.
    Joe Morgan
    Brisbane Biodiesel Site Admin
    http://www.brisbanebiodiesel.com

    Searching tips using Google - SVO Dual tank systems
    SVO, Common Rail and Direct Injection - Vehicles converted to Used Cooking Oil

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    • #3
      Re: What types of oil are OK

      D1,
      Ditto, but you may actually have a vegetable oil which has been modified to raise its melting point and make it more stable in the fryer, rathwer than an animal fat. "Hydrogenation" adds a hydtrogen atom to each of the carbon chains, to saturate the oil, raising its melting point.
      It may have some liquid or low melting point oils in it also, so if you make biodiesel from it, allow it to settle over a time and check for layers of white biodiesel (solidified) and liquid biodiesel.

      Ths liquid biodiesel can be decanted from the solid or filtered thru a cleanable filter, if it is a slurry. Keep the solid biodiesel, it makes a good high energy summer fuel while the liquid biodiesel is a good winter fuel.

      Hope this helps,
      Tony
      Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

      Current Vehicles in stable:
      '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
      '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
      '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

      Previous Vehicles:
      '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
      '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
      '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
      '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
      '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
      '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
      '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
      '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
      '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

      Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
      Adding images and/or documents to your posts

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: What types of oil are OK

        yeh the temp shouldnt be a problem here in rockhampton. my biggest problem at the moment if finding some one who uses veg oil and not tallow (its hard enough getting used tallow) and working out what hardware i need for full production.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: What types of oil are OK

          Hello Dicko

          You should just about be able to get by with biodiesel made from 100% Tallow (Frytol/Red Band) year round In Rockhampton

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: What types of oil are OK

            I live in Townsville 720 kms north of Rockhampton and the fellows here making biodiesel out of tallow or solid vegetable oil have problems in the cooler months.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: What types of oil are OK

              sometimes in winter it doesent go above 15 deg. then there is the wind chill as it gets windy here. some mornings we get a fairly decent frost out at work.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: What types of oil are OK

                D1cko, hmm..........I think you will have gel problems I do in Toowoomba at 0-15deg so I think you will as well. Mind you give it ago see what happens on a small litre batch, Leave them in the sun and overnight.And llok at the results.
                Annatex

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                • #9
                  Re: What types of oil are OK

                  Hi,

                  I spoke to a restaurant and I was given the ok to take their oil. The chef said Palm Oil and I went away excited. Then I remembered seeing small solid blocks of edible vegetable oil in the kitchen. I started to think that this might be no good ie a fat. Tony, you mention in this post that it might probably be a vegetable oil that has been blended to give a higher melting point. Any idea how much vegetable oil to fat ratio might be in these blocks? Can I get some decent winter bio out of them do you think?

                  In a nutshell i guess is it worth me pursuing this source. I can get a really good supply of the palm oil but are not sure there will be good biodiesel at the end. I also have an animal fat supply if I wanted, but is this palm oil solid block the better one at this stage

                  cheers farmy

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                  • #10
                    Re: What types of oil are OK

                    Originally posted by Farm Boy View Post
                    Hi,

                    I spoke to a restaurant and I was given the ok to take their oil. The chef said Palm Oil and I went away excited. Then I remembered seeing small solid blocks of edible vegetable oil in the kitchen. I started to think that this might be no good ie a fat. Tony, you mention in this post that it might probably be a vegetable oil that has been blended to give a higher melting point. Any idea how much vegetable oil to fat ratio might be in these blocks? Can I get some decent winter bio out of them do you think?

                    In a nutshell i guess is it worth me pursuing this source. I can get a really good supply of the palm oil but are not sure there will be good biodiesel at the end. I also have an animal fat supply if I wanted, but is this palm oil solid block the better one at this stage

                    cheers farmy
                    Farmy,
                    While you can make biodiesel from the palm oil, it would be best to use it for summer biodiesel.
                    The palm oil is "Hydrogenated" to make it a saturated oil (fat). This is a similar process to making margarine from canola and other vegetable oils.

                    The oil is still a vegetable oil, but it has a high melting point.

                    If you can find some liquid vegetable oils, you can still use the palm oil as 25% of your biodiesel feedstock during winter, and still have usable biodiesel.

                    Regards,
                    Tony
                    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                    Current Vehicles in stable:
                    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                    Previous Vehicles:
                    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                    Adding images and/or documents to your posts

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: What types of oil are OK

                      thanks Tony

                      I do have a smallish supply of liquid oil at the moment so I will try the 25% mix during winter. However, If I was to mix 100% of this hydrogenated palm oil during winter, would I get any useable liquid oil from it (off the surface) during the winter? Or would 100% of the resulting bio gel up do you think?

                      Also, call me silly but when people say you can blend fats with mineral diesel so it can be used during winter, how is this done. Do a mix say 50:50 in a container vigorously and then add to my fuel tank. If so, wont the white fatty fuel just sink to the bottom overnight?
                      thanks for your considerable help,
                      Farmy

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: What types of oil are OK

                        I have a sample of biodiesel made from Tallow. It is solid at 15°C
                        If your oil is a blend of a variety of oils, you may get some usable biodiesel on top of the solid biodiesel (from your high melting point oil).
                        A small amount of high melting point biodiesel (20% or less) in petroleum diesel, may result in a blend which does not separate, despite being used in temperatures lower than the biodiesel melting point.
                        I doubt that 50% blend of such biodiesel in diesel would remain liquid much below the melting point of the biodiesel.

                        You will need to test your biodiesel in the diesel available at this time of year at different proportions to determine a blend which does not separate during storage or use.

                        Regards,
                        Tony
                        Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                        Current Vehicles in stable:
                        '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                        '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                        '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                        Previous Vehicles:
                        '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                        '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                        '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                        '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                        '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                        '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                        '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                        '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                        '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                        Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                        Adding images and/or documents to your posts

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: What types of oil are OK

                          I find that I need to blend the hydrogenated oil with real oil and that if the WVO has too high a proportion of the Hydrogenated that it is much more difficult to process.

                          By choice I wont take hydrogenated oil! If you have a lot you will need to work out a proportion of Meth that works for you - I suspect it will be a lot higher than simple veggie oils.

                          Good luck - make up lots of 1L test batches with varying percentages.

                          Cheers,
                          Paul
                          Brisbane
                          80 series TDi with 100K on B100
                          2005 Audi A3 TDi B20-B50 60K on BD
                          1993 Daihatsu Rocky - B100 20K on BD - all good!

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                          • #14
                            Re: What types of oil are OK

                            D1 with reference to the tallow, being a chef in W.A. the cheap buggers here tend to use the animal based stuff more often than not (though i am aware of a few potential supplies of canola if that resource has not been tapped already) are there any potential problems with blockages, more of a requirement to change fuel filters, the tallow lining the fuel tank creating probs later etc sorry to jump in on your convo Dicko ...just you started a good one thanks regards

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: What types of oil are OK

                              I have one more for you on the subject of using tallow unlike canola and the like does it oxidise and become less of a quality over time i have been lead to believe and using my chef experience that liquid oils are impervious to air so don't oxidise, is that the case for animal based fat (solids) and can you make a batch of bio and expect it to last for as long as you require it too cheers .

                              Comment

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