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What can we do with glycerine???

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  • #1

    What can we do with glycerine???

    What can we do with Glycerine???
    If your making BD, you've got some and you may wonder what can i do with it. You may have your own methods ideas.?
    I have heard of many things but no real great solution.
    Prof. Martin Mittelbach says its a resource with a market value, but where is this Market place.?
    Recently Robert sent me a lead from China. Apon following the lead i found they will buy it for US$200 a tonne from port in Australia and pay freight but their minimum order was 200 tonnes a month!!!, and we dont have that much to put it in a palecon , get it down to the shipping port and send it off for US$200. concidering a recycled palecon can cost AU$150. and road freight to port would suck up any other monies.
    Some things i have done is.-
    1.Give 20 litre drums of it to my Benz mechanic, as a mechanics hand wash/engine degreaser, which he was not convinced of using.
    2.Recyle all my detergent/soap/laundry bottles, fill them and try and give it to friends as a shed soap. not apreciated
    3. put 20 litrs down my toilet to losen up my 50 year old drainage that one worked. Its good as a draino.
    4. Put it into my compost to condition an otherwise acidic compost. that works in neutralizing the compost and adding fertilizer . (if you react with KOH)
    But still wouldnt it be good if we could get something back for it ,, Particularly since we are all into recycling and the environment.
    Any ideas greatly apreciated.
    Another idea i would like to test is soapification/plasticizer of bricky's mortar, would it add to the structural integrity of the mortar?? i dunno.
    It can become a problem (glycerine) . I know someone who has a tonne of it in his backyard
    Cheers all Darren.

    Hi Darren, I have started using my Glycerine as a handwash. It feels very crude, but it also does a very good job of breaking down grease. I wanted to say though to your self and other who might be reading this that it is worth allowing the methanol to evaporate off from the glycerine or extract it through a condensor method. The methanol makes the glycerine a bit unfriendly in composts, human flesh and septic toilet systems. I say this last point in particular as it can upset the normal balance in the septic system and can prevent the proper break down of waste. Yuk.

    Cheers
    Joe


    Yep,, Joe is right about evaporating off the Meth,. If the glycerine sits in the sun with the lid off the container for more than a few days, that will do the job. Put the Glycerine in open bowl or buckets and you will notice the glycerine becomes thicker and its viscocity grows. Thats evidence of the meth. being evaporated off.
    Please submit to this thread if you've got any other bright ideas or findings from trial and error.
    Cheers, Darren.
    C'mon lets find a superior way to deal with our glycerine, or help each other find that elusive marketplace for a recycled product
    darren leonadas
    darren leonadas
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    Last edited by darren leonadas; 11 January 2006, 10:33 AM.
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  • #2
    Re: What can we do with glycerine???

    What I do with it is add it to drums of oil that is not clear...ie gravy or applesauce appearance stir and leave sit for 3 days to give clarified oil on the top...gravy at the bottom. even oil that smells a bit can be done this way. At about 10%... even 20% glycerol to oil. Don't heat just add stir and leave settle.

    This is particularly important in winter when the oil tends to show more gravy as the paarticales of animal fats in it precipitate out with the cool weather.

    It is an idea floated by HC on the infopop forum and he also recommends it to winterise BD. I use it clarify the straight oil in winter.

    Chemically the polar glycerol drags the water and food particles , impuiries tot he bottom. Remember the water in waste oil associates heavily with the particulates.

    So I make sure I get plenty on hand to use in winter during summer. Now I just gotta work out what to do with all that BD I am not allowed to use that I make as a byproduct while manufaturing my glycerol!!

    i think i'll get a diesel central heater..

    BP

    oh by the way the market place is at the coal mines...they use it to spray or sumsuch...
    bushpig
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    Last edited by bushpig; 26 January 2006, 09:58 PM.

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    • #3
      Re: What can we do with glycerine???

      Hello evryone, this is my second attempt at posting.

      My first attempt seems to have gone astray, possibly to the ATO?

      Anyway, I wish to comment on the de-methanoling your glycerine.
      I see people say to leave it sit for a few weeks and the methanol will evaporate.
      I am not so sure the methanol evaporates.
      Tests I performed many years ago when I was young and silly (last year) showed that when I used 200ml methanol in the reaction, about 30% of the glycerine layer is methanol.
      That means that when you set 1 litre of glycerine in the sun it needs to reduce to about 700ml for all the methanol to evaporate.

      I have never seen this much shrinkage occure, even over many weeks.

      Gee, for a second I really thought this forum had a spell check.

      Squire Tilly KE

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      • #4
        Re: What can we do with glycerine???

        Tilly Great to see you here...
        So what do you do with your Glycerine?
        I am very interested in this as I have about 100litres of the stuff that I intend to recover the methanol from and once I have done that I intend to compost some, Put some in the rubish and probably compost some more.. Hell I know if I don't get cracking and do something with it soon there will be a mountain of it to move.
        We need a good soap recipe that will get rid of 500ml's. Anyone got that recipe?
        Anyway again good to see a seasoned Biodiesel'er like yourself here.

        prich1_au
        Biobasics and Biodiesel yahoo grps
        HDJ80 (aka Kiwipete)
        Canberra

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        • #5
          Re: What can we do with glycerine???

          Welcome Tilly - good to see some of the "wise old folk" from infopop also helping out here - the more the merrier and your contributions are certainly appreciated. Spell check is something I'll be adding very soon - it's already on my list, don't worry. BTW - I know you were only joking about the ATO, but just to re-assure anyone else who may be worried about this - we'll never let them find you via here . (see this post for more info on this). Now I'll stop hi-jacking this thread and let you get back to your very important issue of left over glycerine.

          Now as for soap recipies - perhaps Darren might be able to help out. As you will see from his shiny new site - www.melbournebiodiesel.org, one of his crew (Richard Tye) makes soap from their left over glycerine. Sounds a little like Fight Club to me
          Robert.
          Site Admin.

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          • #6
            Re: What can we do with glycerine???

            Hello hdj80,
            back when I was making biodiesel, I used to e-mail all of my spare glycerine to Todd and Keith.
            I am sure they would appreciate 100 litres from you.
            Send it Airmail COD.

            I would always have a 20 litre frytol pail of it sitting around for washing and just occasionally I would throw some in the tip.
            I actually make real soap from used animal fat and NaOH for everyday home use.
            For some reason my wife is not too most excited about it .
            My daughter loves it for shaving. No wonder I have never seen her with a beard.


            Hello Robert,
            Yes, I see bushpig has beat me here.
            Terry extended us an invitation.
            I am sure if the ATO wished to have me make some soap for their Christmas party they would not have to look very hard.

            Squire Tilly KE

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            • #7
              Re: What can we do with glycerine???


              Hey great to see some reaction to this very important question. I would not like to confirm or deny that a guy in Melbourne has 1 tonne of glycerine piled up in twenty litre drums down the side of his house.
              One of our Members in the Melbourne Club though has been working on it.
              Richard by day is a mild mannered paramedic ambulance man who's experience gets him standing by for Critical injury Chopper flights.
              By night his been a member of the melbourne biodiesel club working on a soap recipe for glycerine.
              Visit Richards site:-- http://www.glycerinesoap.com.au/making.htm
              Get the recipe on that site too.

              PS. Also a good dollop of glycerine in a bucket of water worked wonders on my recent tiling renovation. I used it to clean of the excess grout and in the final cleanup the saturated KOH in the glycerine worked a treat.
              Cheers Darren,,

              PPS, Hey Robert i just did a spell check on your new upgrade, and the spellcheck didn't know "biodiesel", , how long ago did you install?? am i the first user??? If so i taught 'the word' to the Machine!!!

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              • #8
                Re: What can we do with glycerine???

                Here's another link to a soap making recipe:

                http://www.liferesearchuniversal.com/soap.html#bar

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                • #9
                  Re: What can we do with glycerine???

                  Neutralising Glycerine is another thread on this site, very interesting. But i try to go for the low tech solution to a problem.
                  Using the glycerine waste product because it is alkaline.
                  I've been using glycerine (naturally containing KOH and very alkaline) in my compost just because it is alkaline.
                  My compost is too acidic as i put all my dogs turds in the compost, and we drink too much coffee and compost loads of coffe grounds. By adding glycerine it actually neutralises a compost matter that was too acidic to start with.
                  I'm not sure if DOG TURDS are on the list of regulated substances for making bombs or not, though i do refer to them as "Lady landmines."
                  Its still a fascination to my dog "Lady", why I archive her ****.

                  Cheers Darren.
                  PS. last count the melbourne club has 1.7 tonnes of glycerine

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                  • #10
                    Re: What can we do with glycerine???

                    1.7t of glycerine - that's a lot of dog **** to neutralise

                    You are right Darren, the spell checker doesn't know biodiesel, as it's just using a default dictionary. When you tell it to "learn" a word, it stores that locally on your PC (browser cookie), so that will ony help you. I'll have to manually edit the dictionary to include the word biodiesel, as it would not do to have the spell checker here not know the words we'll mostly use.
                    Robert.
                    Site Admin.

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                    • #11
                      Re: What can we do with glycerine???

                      I'm not sure if it works so perhaps when i get some I'll try it but it seems to me that as glycerol is a surfactant surely it would make a great wetta soil product as well as adding in some nitrates.If this is the case u could make good money out of spraying ppl's lawns with an instant healthy green effect. (coastal area's might not work so well as the soil is already alkaline)
                      Of course if I'm totally wrong then you just killed a lot of lawns
                      "Fuel prices suck Bio Diesel is the PayBack" !!!!:p

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                      • #12
                        Re: What can we do with glycerine???

                        AFAIK the only way there would be nitrates present in the glycerol was if the caustic had been neutralised with nitric acid beforehand. But I wouldn't recommend this as you would have two out of the three ingredients necessary to make nitro-glycerine.
                        Better to make phosphate fertilizer, see thread on neutralising glycerine.

                        Yes, I've noticed that a dilute glycerine/water mixture does have soil wetting properties. Repeated use on lawns may raise the soil alkalinity over time.

                        On the infopop site, some threads report using the glycerine as a weed killer.
                        But so far it hasn't killed the weeds on the vacant block next to me yet.

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                        • #13
                          Re: What can we do with glycerine???

                          Glycerine /glycerol is an excellent combustion improver.I guess we could sell all the glycerol to Industrial units having boilers using furnace oil......OR GIVE IT TO THEM FOR FREE.....in Japan they use it as combustion improver!!!!!Same is the case in Austria

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                          • #14
                            Re: What can we do with glycerine???

                            Sauman,

                            I agree entirely.

                            As you are mostly aware i am working on a project to bring biodiesel to communities in need in Cambodia (most of their electricity is provided by diesel gens).

                            I have discovered that the local brick works, who use furnaces, would love this stuff. Used as a flame accelerant, the benefit will be that they use less wood (and this country is already suffering from massive and non stop deforestation) in their furnaces to achieve the same levels of heat.

                            However, Im told that the glycerine has to be burnt above a certain temperature to avoid possible health risks, and Im yet to investigate this further.

                            Thanks for some great info here guys!

                            Dave

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                            • #15
                              Re: What can we do with glycerine???

                              I Believe in Austria they use it (glycerine) to aid burning of Council Rubbish in furnaces which then heat a hot water heating infrastucture in a small town. The smoke stacks have a 'scouring technology', (i dont understand) which removes all smog and particulates. Apparently the Spittelau District Heating Plant has the same emissions per anum as one small car. But reduces all the rubbish of Vienna.
                              Redevelopment after Shut down (coal use ceased), Architected by Hundertwasser.
                              darren leonadas
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                              Last edited by darren leonadas; 1 March 2006, 12:03 PM.

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