Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

[Threegees Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Threegees]

G'day all,
New to the forum but I have been brewing for over 15yrs, one of my regular users is going o/seas so I have his share of fuel available for sale. About 120L per week max or any lesser amount.. The fuel is double cracked, washed to a neutral ph and dried and filtered. Any questions feel free to ask or pm me!

Cheers Gregg.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

Hi Gregg,
Does your biodiesel pass the 3/27 test?
What is the cost per litre?

[Threegees Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Threegees]

Re: Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

Hi Tilly,
Yes it does, I test it at around 25deg. ph is usually around 7., all made from veggie oil (no palm oil) and in cold pour tests it gels at about 0 deg cel.

Price is $1.00 L.
Cheers Gregg

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

Hi Gregg,
I am glad to hear your biodiesel passes the 3/27 test.
I am curious how you are measuring the pH and what you think a pH of 7 tells you about the biodiesel.

[250downunder Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close 250downunder]

Re: Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

You are being set up, Threegees. Biodiesel can't have a PH [Potential Hydrogen] No water - No PH.
Most will know that you are referring to the PH of your final wash water.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

Hi 250 downumder,
Gregg has been making biodiesel for over 15 years.
He produces biodiesel professonally.
I am not sure what you mean when you say he is being "set up"
Obviously Gregg thinks this neutral pH reading is important. He has mentioned it in both posts.

I am trying to understand how he performes this pH reading and how it is important.
I have not done a pH measurement in the last 10 years.

[250downunder Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close 250downunder]

Re: Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

Hi Tilly,
Please excuse my assumption that you were seeking an explanation as to how one can measure the PH of Bio - knowing that you can't. I certainly consider it important to monitor the PH of my wash water.
I regularly measure the PH of my wash water to ascertain when all alkaline materials have been washed from the Bio. I tend to use slightly more than the calculated amount of KOH. I like to think that this, together with very aggressive mixing, gives me a more complete reaction [I can't recall the last time I had a batch fail a 3/27 test]. A PH test of the initial wash water is always strongly alkaline, becoming progressively less alkaline with each successive wash. 4 or 5 washes produces neutral effluent. My reasoning is that any alkaline residual together with water [be it dissolved or accumulated from condensation whilst in vehicle fuel tanks] will surely lead to corrosion of fuel system components.
For this reason, I am very particular with both water washing and thoroughly drying my Bio.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

Hi 250 downumder,
I tend to not make assumptions.
Gregg posted that his biodiesel is "washed to a neutral ph" and the "ph is usually around 7". He seemed to be talking about his biodiesel, not the wash water, but it is not clear what he means. That is why I asked him to explain what he means.

A number of years ago several chemists told me that reading the pH of the wash water tells you nothing of importance. That is probably why it is not an ASTM test or any other recognized biodiesel quality test.
NaOH/ KOH has a much stronger attraction to water than to biodiesel so for all practical purposes, any NaOH/KOH remaining in the biodiesel that has not already been consumed in the side reaction making soap, is removed in the first wash. From there, checking the pH in subsequent washes is watching the soap being removed.
Your eyes will also tell you the soap is being removed.

I used to water wash, but for the last three years I have done the "bubble air through the biodiesel" to remove the methanol and allow the biodiesel to sit for at least a month before using.
I am having better results with this method than with water washing.
I Have made this determination by the fact that my cheap inline fuel filters last much longer now than it used to

Hi Tilly,
Please excuse my assumption that you were seeking an explanation as to how one can measure the PH of Bio - knowing that you can't. I certainly consider it important to monitor the PH of my wash water.
I regularly measure the PH of my wash water to ascertain when all alkaline materials have been washed from the Bio. I tend to use slightly more than the calculated amount of KOH. I like to think that this, together with very aggressive mixing, gives me a more complete reaction [I can't recall the last time I had a batch fail a 3/27 test]. A PH test of the initial wash water is always strongly alkaline, becoming progressively less alkaline with each successive wash. 4 or 5 washes produces neutral effluent. My reasoning is that any alkaline residual together with water [be it dissolved or accumulated from condensation whilst in vehicle fuel tanks] will surely lead to corrosion of fuel system components.
For this reason, I am very particular with both water washing and thoroughly drying my Bio.

[250downunder Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close 250downunder]

Re: Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

We all tend to develop our methods of producing Bio to suit our particular requirements, for some time is important, for others, quality. Some are concerned with inputs, water, power etc. One could question the importance of 3/27 testing considering that many appear to run straight WVO without major problems.
I have experimented with air washing. I water wash. I Initially fitted pre filters and have removed them, since I had never had one block.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

Hi 250downunder.
Indeed, the only test I place any importance in at all is the "Clear and Bright Test". That is the only test I ever do to my production biodiesel.
But then I am not producing biodiesel commercially and selling it to people as Gregg is. When you become a commercial producer quality of product is of paramount concern, it is everything.

[250downunder Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close 250downunder]

Re: Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

Risky business without ASTM compliance.

[Threegees Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Threegees]

Re: Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

Hi all,
You can most certainly test the ph of Bio-diesel, it is hygroscopic and even when "dry" contains a very small amount of water. about 1,200 ppm. You test the ph of your raw oil in your Titration and the small amount of "water" in dry fuel is enough to get a reasonably accurate ph value.,with a very expensive digital meter, it is possible to get a very accurate result. I tried these meters years ago, but they are hard to keep calibrated, so I've been using dedicated litmus paper test strips which are quite accurate and cheap!! It is very important to have a ph around 7 , this ensures that alloy fuel components are not damaged by high ph and steel ones not effected by low ph, it also shows you have done a good job on your wash!,. As Tilly stated, I make fuel for customers , so quality is essential and even though the Australian standard does not mention a ph amount, it is widely advised by many makers, universities and researchers on bio-diesel that a neutral ph is necessary for a high quality fuel. I hope that answers your questions , cheers Gregg.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

Hi Gregg,
Do you mean that if my WVO titrates 1 the pH of my oil is 1 and if it titrates 12 the pH of my oil is 12?

Hi all,
...You test the ph of your raw oil in your Titration...

[250downunder Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close 250downunder]

Re: Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

Only an aqueous solution can have a PH. Biodiesel is insoluble in water. Bio can't have a PH.
What you can measure is the PH of any water present in the BIO.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Small quantities of Bio-Diesel available, Brisbane southside.

Hi 250downunder,
That is the problem with making assumptions.
You assumed Gregg meant he was checking the pH of his wash water. I bet that considering Gregg is a commercial producer, you even thought he was using an electronic pH meter to do these pH checks. However, what he really meant is that he is dipping litmus paper into the biodiesel.
I was a bit surprised with the litmus paper. However, seeing as it is a meaningless test anyway, he might as well use litmus paper and save his money.