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  • 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

    I know all the stuff about viscosity when cold verses viscosity when hot, Please dont go there, also as my engine has 1/2 Million ks on it I like a slightly heavier oil, hence the 50 grade rather than 40, so dont go there either.
    Question??? Now again and again I read stuff saying the lower whatever W oil gives better, as in faster lubrication and protection at start up [where most wear occurs] ,So on cold start a 5W50 oil is much thinner than a 20W50 and the 5W50 gets pumped and splashed around much quicker.
    But im imagining myself as a lonely little big end bearing, iv"e had a tuff life and my tolerances are getting bigger as i get older [know the feeling] . Once when I was nice and tight, my close tolerances would hold that 5W50 or 10W50 inplace while cold until my next start, with i think cohesive forces. but now with wider gaps the thinner oil just runs down and out. OOHH that gravity sh#t. So now on startup I am dry.

    The 20W50 oil being a little thicker when cold may tend to Remain in those wider gaps.
    David

  • #2
    Re: 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

    Originally posted by dagwill View Post
    I know all the stuff about viscosity when cold verses viscosity when hot, Please dont go there, also as my engine has 1/2 Million ks on it I like a slightly heavier oil, hence the 50 grade rather than 40, so dont go there either.
    Question??? Now again and again I read stuff saying the lower whatever W oil gives better, as in faster lubrication and protection at start up [where most wear occurs] ,So on cold start a 5W50 oil is much thinner than a 20W50 and the 5W50 gets pumped and splashed around much quicker.
    But im imagining myself as a lonely little big end bearing, iv"e had a tuff life and my tolerances are getting bigger as i get older [know the feeling] . Once when I was nice and tight, my close tolerances would hold that 5W50 or 10W50 inplace while cold until my next start, with i think cohesive forces. but now with wider gaps the thinner oil just runs down and out. OOHH that gravity sh#t. So now on startup I am dry.

    The 20W50 oil being a little thicker when cold may tend to Remain in those wider gaps.
    David
    You have the basics of it 'down pat'.
    For a worn engine, go for higher viscosity, both cold and hot.
    eg a 20W50 oil is better for an old engine. I believe that you are better off with an old vehicle to use the cheapest oil in the rating you prefer and change the oil more often. It won't cost any more but will get rid of particles that could cause more wear.
    I do not believe that the bearings will be "dry". They will not have much oil on them, but at start-up, there is less force on the bearings than when running.
    You could get an electric oil pump to prime the bearings prior to cranking. This would eliminate the issue of "dry" bearings completely.

    Have fun,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts

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    • #3
      Re: 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

      Hey Toni thats something I have wondered about for half my life [ electric oil priming pump ] something you could hit foe 3 or 4 seconds prior to startup, so that you already have oil pressure when you hit the starter. Every car ive had runs for several seconds before the oil light goes out. Sometimes there will even be a clatter in those first seconds. Do you have any further info on such priming pumps

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

        Originally posted by dagwill View Post
        Hey Toni that's something I have wondered about for half my life [ electric oil priming pump ] something you could hit foe 3 or 4 seconds prior to startup, so that you already have oil pressure when you hit the starter. Every car I've had runs for several seconds before the oil light goes out. Sometimes there will even be a clatter in those first seconds. Do you have any further info on such priming pumps
        I have not researched this application, but there are 12V gear pumps which I use to shift WVO around. I feel that they would work well as they can deliver at pressure, can move a lot of oil and they are only around $100 each.
        You need to look for a way to suck the oil from your sump and feed it into the oil galleries.
        Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

        Current Vehicles in stable:
        '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
        '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
        '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

        Previous Vehicles:
        '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
        '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
        '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
        '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
        '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
        '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
        '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
        '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
        '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

        Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
        Adding images and/or documents to your posts

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

          Originally posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
          I have not researched this application, but there are 12V gear pumps which I use to shift WVO around. I feel that they would work well as they can deliver at pressure, can move a lot of oil and they are only around $100 each.
          You need to look for a way to suck the oil from your sump and feed it into the oil galleries.
          ou would also want a non return valve in the priming pump circuit so that once you start the engine and shut off the priming pump your oil pressure does not bleed off through it back into your sump.

          Y

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          • #6
            Re: 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

            [FONT=&quot]P TO 5% WHEN YOU BUY MORE
            somethimg like this
            Mouse over to Zoom
            -
            Click to enlarge



            [CENTER]Click to view larger image


            [TABLE="class: vi-centerclass"]
            [TR]
            dagwill
            Senior Member
            Last edited by dagwill; 30 January 2019, 12:07 AM.

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            • #7
              Re: 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

              [FONT=&quot]
              Check if this part fits your vehicle
              Contact the seller
              possibly with some hard copper plumbing , T peice at the oil pressure take off






              Mouse over image to zoom





              [CENTER][TABLE="class: vi-centerclass"]
              [TR]
              dagwill
              Senior Member
              Last edited by dagwill; 30 January 2019, 12:10 AM.

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              • #8
                Re: 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

                Provided thosw items are rated or the temps they may encounter. The pump at 1-4 litres per minute would be around the capacity I would expect you would need.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

                  I use these as oil transfer pumps. I have found them reliable and move plenty of oil. They can deliver a high pressure in low flow applications.
                  As it will run for about a minute at cold starts, they should last forever.
                  Also, no NRV (non return valve) needed.
                  Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                  Current Vehicles in stable:
                  '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                  '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                  '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                  Previous Vehicles:
                  '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                  '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                  '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                  '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                  '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                  '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                  '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                  '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                  '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                  Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                  Adding images and/or documents to your posts

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

                    What you need Dagwill is an oil accumulator. I seriously looked at fitting one of these many years ago when I first bought my diesel 4WD but it was a fair bit of engineering to undertake so eventually I forgot about it.
                    Here is a link to one
                    https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...h/#HowAccWorks
                    To use a pump you would need to tee into the existing oil pump delivery( this may be hard as most fit directly into the block) and the Pick up of the factory pump. An adaptor on the oil filter may be another way. The gear pump would be the best type of pump as when it is stops turning flow is locked.
                    Johnnojack
                    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 200000km on WVO,(2020) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids FPHE, heated filter fuel line and tank pickup for thicker oil. Mk. 9 version now and no changes planned as trouble free.
                    Mercedes W201 190D 1986 model: 2 tank system, bigger fuel line from tank, no heat exchanger, electric pump for diesel 22000km so far sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

                      Originally posted by Johnnojack View Post
                      The gear pump would be the best type of pump as when it is stops turning flow is locked.
                      I would not want to be counting on that alone. Oil in the pump= slippery + lots of back pressure ???? Might just be enough to make the pump spin backwards and you lose oil pressure.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

                        Yep that's possible, so use a NRV. An accumulator could still be the go. The way I imagined one would be to have a catch which held the piston in the fully loaded position, that is full of oil under pressure, and on starting the engine it would be released. Such a device could even be teed into the oil pressure gauge sensor port. For a quick shot of oil to the system before engine start maybe a volume of about 100ml would be enough.
                        Johnnojack
                        4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 200000km on WVO,(2020) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids FPHE, heated filter fuel line and tank pickup for thicker oil. Mk. 9 version now and no changes planned as trouble free.
                        Mercedes W201 190D 1986 model: 2 tank system, bigger fuel line from tank, no heat exchanger, electric pump for diesel 22000km so far sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

                          Yes I suppose an accumulator would do the job, I am not familiar with them at all. If i did that I think I would use a fuel relay valve open when ignition is on , closes as soon as you turn off, and then an overide button to turn it on before next start. Yes a T at the oil guage outlet on rhe block, and I would need to remove sump and plumb a separate pickup, from the bottom up and out the side of the sump at its top.
                          One downside i see is the more connections and things you have [ oil coolers, this thing, etc ] the more places and chances for something to go wrong. A temp sensor and oil sensor connected to a warning buzzer might be prudent.

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                          • #14
                            Re: 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

                            You don't need an inlet from the sump. Oil gets pumped into the accumulator when the engines running and goes out the same pipe when the engine pump loses pressure. You can have a valve to operate as required, read the paragraph on valves on the Canton link I posted
                            Johnnojack
                            4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 200000km on WVO,(2020) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids FPHE, heated filter fuel line and tank pickup for thicker oil. Mk. 9 version now and no changes planned as trouble free.
                            Mercedes W201 190D 1986 model: 2 tank system, bigger fuel line from tank, no heat exchanger, electric pump for diesel 22000km so far sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 5W50 or 10w50 or 20W50

                              You could simply have a solenoid which is connected to the Ignition switch (for a petrol engine) or to the starter motor for a diesel. With a diesel a NRV in parallel with the solenoid would allow the tank to be pressurised when engine is running. When starter is engaged, a spurt of oil would hit the bearings before the engine has turned a full revolution.
                              The tank would need a bladder like water pressure tanks, to store the pressure for oil delivery when starting. The smallest of those that I have seen is only 2 L. That may work, providing the bladder is oil resistant.
                              Waddayathink?
                              Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                              Current Vehicles in stable:
                              '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                              '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                              '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                              Previous Vehicles:
                              '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                              '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                              '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                              '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                              '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                              '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                              '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                              '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                              '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                              Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                              Adding images and/or documents to your posts

                              Comment

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