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Thread: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,269

    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    I did tests using a 4 channel data logging thermometer on a 10 plate FPHe and later, on a dual coil Helton, both on my Mercedes 300D.

    With the 10 plate FPHE, the fuel temperature at the FPHE outlet was with in 5 degrees C of the coolant temperature under all driving conditions, including warm up.
    The Helton was unable to achieve anything like this. I provided the test results to Helton at the time.

    Tim-HJ61 uses a 30 plate on his Tojo because of the high flow of fuel in the Toyota return line on that model.

    We are currently using a blend of Used Cooking Oil and stale petrol (some 2 stroke in it as well) from a local bike shop. I have no conversion on my W123 '85 300CD and my wife's W124 300D has had the fuel thermostat removed, allowing the stock fuel heater to operate all of the time. Not particularly effective but does overcome most issues with a little HMP in the fuel during winter.
    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. [Head gasket blew!]

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  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    South Coast, NSW
    Posts
    870

    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    Tim-HJ61 uses a 30 plate on his Tojo because of the high flow of fuel in the Toyota return line on that model.
    Tony thanks for your response.
    the reason i asked was for the HWS he is planning to install. would a 30 plate heat enough for say a fresh water flow of say 6LPM to 45C? i just wouldnt like for him to buy one and install it for the purpose of a hot water camp shower and it not be adequite that was all.
    Cheers
    Cheers
    Nick.
    Harold 2002 Toyota Landcruiser 105 series. 4.2lt turbo glide turbo, Too lazy to make bio nowdays times money. 3'' lift.

    Roidio 2001 Holden Rodeo 4x4 2.8L TD. 2.5" exhaust sytem, H/E shower system. 4" Lift, Airbags, And lots of fruit, B100 for 55,000 . SOLD

    Elsa 1983 Mercedes-Benz W123 300D. Still The Fastest Merc in Oz, Self built and Female proofed. COUSINS NOW

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    South Coast, NSW
    Posts
    870

    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    Oh and do the 12ht's have a return line? i know the 2H doesnt which seems strange when the engines are quite similar. I wonder why they did that?
    Cheers
    Nick.
    Harold 2002 Toyota Landcruiser 105 series. 4.2lt turbo glide turbo, Too lazy to make bio nowdays times money. 3'' lift.

    Roidio 2001 Holden Rodeo 4x4 2.8L TD. 2.5" exhaust sytem, H/E shower system. 4" Lift, Airbags, And lots of fruit, B100 for 55,000 . SOLD

    Elsa 1983 Mercedes-Benz W123 300D. Still The Fastest Merc in Oz, Self built and Female proofed. COUSINS NOW

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    932

    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    Quote Originally Posted by RODEONICK View Post
    Oh and do the 12ht's have a return line? i know the 2H doesnt which seems strange when the engines are quite similar. I wonder why they did that?

    Hi Nick,

    Yes, the 12h-t has a return line, and the 2H doesn't. I loop mine when on veggie.

    Why the difference?? Don't know.

    It 'might' have something to do with the extra fuelling management required for a DI and factory turbo. What I'm thinking is that inside the outlet that turns into the return pipe on the 12h-t is a pressure release ball valve, which in part regulates the internal pressure inside the IP. There is a similar hole in the 2H IP, perhaps the engineers figured they could use it for something useful. On the 2H it is referred to as an air bleed for the IP. I've often wondered if a 12h-t ball valve could be installed in that hole and for it to be combined with a valve in order to speed up the purge on the 2H. Not a necessary conversion and probably with minimal gain, but something that I have wondered about.

    It also might be something to do with cooling the fuel, and a reflection on the generally higher heat load of a turbo motor.

    Remember these were Toyota's first factory turbos. They came in before the Nissans. To some extent they had an experimental or developmental role in a period of growth in interest in 4wd passenger diesel. They soon moved to the 1Hz and 1HD-T and the 12h-t was only produced for a few years - 1985 - 1989 I believe, consigning them to legendary status.

    Tim
    Toyota Landcruiser 1988 HJ61 Manual Wagon
    12H-T turbo Direct Injection.
    Twin Tank setup runs on 100% WVO after warm up. 30 plate FPHE with 80C output, 12mm fuel lines
    Start up and shut down electric fuel pump feeds IP direct.
    Front 4WDSytstems Lokka, Rear ARB airlokka for quick escapes up sandhills. Performance GTurbo with 600mm FMIC gives 450nm @ 1700rpm at 20psi boost.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
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    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    Quote Originally Posted by RODEONICK View Post
    Tony thanks for your response.
    the reason i asked was for the HWS he is planning to install. would a 30 plate heat enough for say a fresh water flow of say 6LPM to 45C? i just wouldnt like for him to buy one and install it for the purpose of a hot water camp shower and it not be adequite that was all.
    Cheers
    Nick, If you have used a Helton dual HE in the past, then you know its performance. A 30 plate FPHE will transfer a LOT more heat to the water than a Helton would. In fact, you would need to add cold water if the engine is at operating temperature, unless you have plenty of flow.

    Heltons are good for what they were designed for - heating a small amount of water so you don't have a COLD shower.

    FPHE are designed for maximum heat transfer from one fluid to the other. The bigger they are, the greater the heat transfer.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. [Head gasket blew!]

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    South Coast, NSW
    Posts
    870

    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    Tony, i think you have gotton the wrong end of the stick here.
    I believe what you said eariler about the 10FPHE being better than DCHE. settled. I only ask as i have never used a FPHE.
    Do you think that a 30 plate will be enough for a shower system with reasonable flow rate or should he look at some other options like my twine or the piranha products specifically desined for this application. Im doing it out of interest too as my 100 series has a constant flow heater system and i find that my twine it doesnt get hot enough so an option for me one day.

    Sorry if ive offended you as i really just know much about FPHE's.
    Cheers
    Cheers
    Nick.
    Harold 2002 Toyota Landcruiser 105 series. 4.2lt turbo glide turbo, Too lazy to make bio nowdays times money. 3'' lift.

    Roidio 2001 Holden Rodeo 4x4 2.8L TD. 2.5" exhaust sytem, H/E shower system. 4" Lift, Airbags, And lots of fruit, B100 for 55,000 . SOLD

    Elsa 1983 Mercedes-Benz W123 300D. Still The Fastest Merc in Oz, Self built and Female proofed. COUSINS NOW

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,269

    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    Nick,
    No offence taken.
    What I said id still valid. The Helton was designed for heating water for camp showers. I believe it would be adequate for that purpose.
    The 10, 20 and 30 plate FPHEs have a significantly greater heat transfer ability than the Helton.
    I have not heard of the other products, so cannot comment on them.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. [Head gasket blew!]

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Hobart, Tasmania
    Posts
    15

    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    I have now purchased the heat exchangers, though as i'm waiting for parts coming form all over the place, I expect it will be a few weeks until I have what I need to put it together.

    I have ordered the two 30 plates and one 10 plate as originally planned, so I will let you know how adequate the hot water is when I get that far. There may be a fair bit of heat loss through the line which will require me to carefully consider tap placement.

    As Tony suggested, either all the heat exchangers will be in parallel, or the two 30's will be connected in series. The 10 plate is definitely on its own, so as to not restrict flow, the primary SVO 30 plate before the water one if they go on the same line, as I imagine i'd only really be using one of them at a time. I'm looking at getting a couple of 3/4" ball valves, so that I can shut off or restrict flow through the HE's. Probably not necessary, but it allows me to adjust the temperature coming out of the 10 plate (in case it's too hot) or cut off the both if I needed to put diesel in my SVO tank and don't want it heated. Only problem is the mass of fittings and clamps i'll need! I'm wary of adding more places for potential leaks/failure, so i'll just have to be careful.

    I'm still needing to get the filters, are you guys using any inline filters before the IP when running dual tanks? what sort of micron should these be?

    Cheers.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Hobart, Tasmania
    Posts
    15

    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    I've had a couple of stuff ups with postage, the 10 plate heat exchanger was missing from one order and the 1/2" NPT solenoids were addressed incorrectly in another, so I'm still waiting on those.

    After looking at the engine bay for a while, I decided by the time i've added 3 heat exchangers, fuel/coolant lines and a filter, things were going to get a bit crammed, so i've moved my deep cycle into the back of the troopy and repositioned the isolator. This gives me a sizeable, very accessible flat surface right next to the IP to put all the SVO bits and pieces – now if only they'd arrive!

    The CAV i'd bought mentioned 1/2" thread, so I thought it'd be of a similar size to 1/2" NPT – wrong. This was the actual size of the thread, so by the time you have the fittings in, it's reduced to about 5mm!

    This is after the HE, though it seems rough to have such a major step down in diameter. Is this going to be ok given it's heated? I'm assuming if may other people are using them, this is likely what most people are working with?

  10. #20
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    ลึก ประเทศอินเด&
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    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    On the other hand,
    If you use biodiesel, you just pour it into the fuel tank of your choice and drive away.

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