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Thread: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Hobart, Tasmania
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    15

    HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    Hi all, mechanical novice and first post here.
    As i'm looking in to WVO/SVO stuff and this site keeps being a main source of info, I thought i'd better get involved.

    I've just purchased a 1996 HZJ75 Troopy a couple of weeks ago, and intend to be travelling around Oz in two months time.
    The vehicle is a blank canvas and pretty stock aside from 33's and 2 inch lift, it has what I believe to be two 90l stock tanks.

    So from what i've learnt in the last couple of weeks the current plan is this;
    • Enable/convert front tank for SVO, rear for diesel (as per ironfarmer).
    • Run transparent 11mm ID fuel line for send and 8mm ID for return
    • SVO tank » 30 plate heat exchanger » heated CAV filter » relocated solenoids » Inline filter » IP
    Main & Aux tanks swap
    Originally I thought i'd use the aux tank for SVO, but then I read ironfarmer's logic on using the front, which made sense to me. I thought i'd stick to the stock solenoid's initially and if it fails step up to a 6 valve pollak. I like the idea (TroopyHZJ75 and others are using) of capacitors for delay on the return line. I figured in case the main fuel selector solenoid failing, it is likely to remain open to the primary rather than auxillary tank (can anyone confirm this?). Given I am having SVO in the main tank, i'd want to swap over the lines into the solenoid so that it defaults to the dino tank in a failure. So now the little green light on AUX tank means SVO, though the gauges are swapped, so i'd have to flip those wires over as well. I think this is all ok.

    Layout
    I'd rerun the main tank lines with transparent 11mm hosing and return with 8mm hosing. From the tank through 11mm pipes to the FPHE, to a CAV filter (possibly heated?), then to the solenoid, then just before the IP, a little inline filter. I'd try to mount the CAV as the highest point in the line to trap air, and have the FPHE, CAV and solenoid as close to the IP as practical.
    I would like to keep the return line functioning as it is (rather than a return loop), to give a bit of heat to the tank and constantly cycle the oil through the filters.

    The questions
    1. When people refer to fuel line sizes, is the standard reference internal diameter?
    2. Do I need a booster pump? if so how do I choose one? I have seen references to too much/too little pressure being bad...
    3. Are CAV filters the filter of choice for this SVO application, any other suggestions?
    4. Would the heated filter be helpful, or just unnecessary?
    5. Anything else?
    I'm not too concerned with having to run SVO at colder temps for now, if it runs when it's 10ºc outside, that's great.

    I haven't actually bought anything for it yet, as I wanted to get some feedback to make sure i'm on the right track, particularly as there seem to be several people who have been running troopy's and 1hz's on SVO for years on this forum. I'd prefer use the experiences gained on this forum and do it right the first if possible!

    Any recommendations and feedback greatly appreciated.

    Cheers,
    Kit

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
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    932

    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    Welcome aboard Kit,

    Well done for doing all your research.

    Just a few initial thoughts.

    >>>>Pollack valve.
    You cannot delay the return switching with the Pollack. They have one motor that drives two plungers that change both sets of 3 lines at the same time. There is no way of changing this unless you buy 2 x 3 port Pollacks, or 2 x 6 ports and not use all the ports. Best to invest in some good three way solenoids from the start with a 12mm orifice to ensure no restriction.


    >>>>Fuel line.
    Yes, the standard measurement for rubber fuel line is internal. Unless you buy air line, in which case it is an external measurement. Air line wall is a bit over 1mm I think, so 10mm OD is really less than 8mm ID. For a 6 cyl diesel using up to 16l/100km, larger diameter is a good thing to cater for the increased viscosity of WVO.

    >>>Do I need a booster pump? if so how do I choose one? I have seen references to too much/too little pressure being bad...

    Not unless your fuel lines are too small. IMHO, it is much more reliable to have large bore - 12mm ID - fuel lines, than have to install a fuel pump


    >>>>Are CAV filters the filter of choice for this SVO application, any other suggestions?
    They are popular. Elements are cheap. If you mount them in the opposite flow to the arrows, the crud and bits settle into glass bowl first and you can see what you have in the filter.

    On the other side, they are really messy to change. There are three large and one small O rings that must be placed in their correct position when doing them up again. You'll need space under them to put an ice-cream container or something to catch the mess and the O rings when you change the filter. I prefer a spin on.

    >>>Would the heated filter be helpful, or just unnecessary?
    Always helpful, but not necessary. They are useful if you end up with high melting point fats in your oil, and in cold climates to aid a quicker changeover.

    >>>Anything else?

    Others will have more comment on your setup of WVO with a 1Hz.


    Tim
    Toyota Landcruiser 1988 HJ61 Manual Wagon
    12H-T turbo Direct Injection.
    Twin Tank setup runs on 100% WVO after warm up. 30 plate FPHE with 80C output, 12mm fuel lines
    Start up and shut down electric fuel pump feeds IP direct.
    Front 4WDSytstems Lokka, Rear ARB airlokka for quick escapes up sandhills. Performance GTurbo with 600mm FMIC gives 450nm @ 1700rpm at 20psi boost.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Hobart, Tasmania
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    15

    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    Thanks for the feedback Tim.

    I'd hoped to keep the existing solenoid, and only change to a new solenoid or pollack in case of a failure (still not sure on Pollak vs Solenoid) – though your post made me realise the stock solenoid probably only has 8mm connections. So I guess i'll check that on Monday when i'm back home and if it's not big enough buy a new pair of solenoids or pollaks to suit. What sort of valves are you using Tim, can you recommend some good 3 way 12mm solenoids?

    The place i've sourced the fuel lines from doesn't have 12mm, only 11mm so i'm hoping that will be sufficient, unless someone can point me in the direction of 12mm transparent fuel hose..
    Otherwise I might go ahead and purchase the fuel lines as i'm looking at a 3 week delivery time.

    On fuel line / coolant line sizes
    - If i'm running 11mm hosing, would I want to make sure all connections – the filter, solenoid and FPHE all accept 1/2" connections?
    - I'm guessing it's ok to reduce down to stock 8mm line after the solenoid, just before the IP as the oil would be heated by then?
    - On the FPHE's I can find are 1/2" connectors, though my coolant lines are larger is this likely to put extra pressure on the coolant system?

    I found it hard to find a heated CAV with 1/2" connectors so i'll leave that idea for the time being and just insulate whichever filter I opt for along with the FPHE.
    I'm still not quite sure if CAV or spin on is the way to go.

    Cheers.

  4. #4
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    Jan 2008
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    Sydney
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    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesk_HZJ75 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback Tim.

    I'd hoped to keep the existing solenoid, and only change to a new solenoid or pollack in case of a failure (still not sure on Pollak vs Solenoid) – though your post made me realise the stock solenoid probably only has 8mm connections. So I guess i'll check that on Monday when i'm back home and if it's not big enough buy a new pair of solenoids or pollaks to suit. What sort of valves are you using Tim, can you recommend some good 3 way 12mm solenoids?

    The place i've sourced the fuel lines from doesn't have 12mm, only 11mm so i'm hoping that will be sufficient, unless someone can point me in the direction of 12mm transparent fuel hose..
    Otherwise I might go ahead and purchase the fuel lines as i'm looking at a 3 week delivery time.

    On fuel line / coolant line sizes
    - If i'm running 11mm hosing, would I want to make sure all connections – the filter, solenoid and FPHE all accept 1/2" connections?
    - I'm guessing it's ok to reduce down to stock 8mm line after the solenoid, just before the IP as the oil would be heated by then?
    - On the FPHE's I can find are 1/2" connectors, though my coolant lines are larger is this likely to put extra pressure on the coolant system?

    I found it hard to find a heated CAV with 1/2" connectors so i'll leave that idea for the time being and just insulate whichever filter I opt for along with the FPHE.
    I'm still not quite sure if CAV or spin on is the way to go.

    Cheers.
    As Tim has said - CAVs are easy but messy - in my first car it was under the bonnet and made a hell of a mess every time it needed changing - on my suburban i have placed them on the side frame rails and it is much better now as the mess just goes straight into an oil catch container - but you still will get yourself covered in oil etc.

    A CAV will cost you somewhere around $50-$60 - have a look at the write up recently by JonnoJack (i think) about a better filter - he manufactured one himself - but in the thread was a link to a stainless steel filter that used the standard water filter elements for aonly around $140 - when time and money permit i intend to redo my setup with these and modify the housings with a drain valve to further reduce mess

    You are far better looping your return - you do not want hot oil going back to your tank as this will just promote growth and oxidisation. Keep the heat under the bonnet. It is your friend there.

    Have seperate filters for both fuels - this will take more room but will mean you are not forced to stop when your vegoil filter clogs up - but can rather switch to your BIO/DINO fuel tank and continue on until it is convenient to change. I can not tell you how many times i had to change a clogged filter either on the side of a busy road or in the rain (murphy!!) in the Toyota Surf when i had a single filter for both fuels.

    Make sure you install a pressure gauge on the fuel line so you have an idea of what your normal pressures look like and can then anticipate when a filter change will be needed.

    Craig
    Holden Suburban K2500 1998 6.5L Turbo GM engine
    210,000KMs (90,000 on new crate motor)

    Currently 2 tanks in and working - 90 litre BIO tank and main tank of 160L WVO

    30 plate FPHE in Engine bay and Helton Dual coil in rear
    Walbro FRB-5 pusher pumps x 2

    50,000KM on Veg and 10,000Km on B100

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grampians, West Victoria
    Posts
    77

    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    I would use large diameter fuel line between tank and heat exchanger/fuel heater then 10 or 8mm after that. It is often easy to change diameters of fuel lines on the components - ie I change from 1/2 inch (12 or 13 mm) to 3/8 (10mm) at the heat exchanger then down to 5/16 (8mm) at the valve to match the vehicles plumbing.

    On my crusier my 2H motor does not have a diesel return line (it is factory looped) so only one valve is necessary. I assume the 1HZ motor has return lines...?

    If you can, use multifuel line (pink colour), which is used in heavy industrial applications This is air, water, diesel proof lines that do not collapse when heated and under vaccum!

    I have used CAV filters - I can disconnect mine and remove from the vehicle without spillage (a drop or two can be caught with a rag) and refit new filter element over a catch tray - then return to vehicle with a new to reconnect.
    1980 Mercedes 300TD 2 tank setup mainly using SVO and some WVO
    1987 Toyota Landcruiser, 2 tank setup mainly using WVO
    2006 Musso Sports - SVO two tank, stock dino, 140lt veggie

  6. #6
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    Feb 2013
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    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    Cheers Grampiansmerc, i've now ordered the fuel lines, 11mm bore for supply and 8mm bore in case I need it – it's listed as being compatible with biodiesels, SVO etc.

    I've bought a couple of 1/2" solenoid valves, though in retrospect I only needed one for the supply, as I could have used one of the existing smaller bore solenoids for the return (if it's kept). The 1HZ has return lines to both tanks, two solenoid valves controlling supply and return lines respectively. Maybe i'll use the spare for the water system, and then i've also got it as a backup.

    I'll probably just use the full 11mm bore right up to the supply solenoid, which I hope to be within 300mm of the injector pump.

    I've also ordered a dual display gauge with an oil temperature and vacuum sensor, installing one of these seems like common sense to be able to know what's going on under the hood.

    Thanks Craig, I hadn't realised the heat of the return could promote growth & oxidisation in-tank.
    l'll definitely be running separate filters for the diesel and SVO, except a small inline one before the IP, i'm also now looking at adding a 10 plate heat exchanger after the supply solenoid.

    I've found some heat exchangers with 3/4" fittings, which appears to be the what my coolant lines are, so I'm thinking about getting three of these.
    - 30 plate for main SVO heating
    - 30 plate for hot water
    - 10 plate before the IP that heats both SVO and diesel.

    I'm not sure how necessary the 10 Plate is, but figure even if it only adds 20ºC to the diesel, that's 20ºC less thermal shock the pump will receive when switching to (what will hopefully be) 80ºC SVO. It also gives the SVO another boost to compensate for heat loss from the line.
    One thing i'm still trying to work out is if three heat exchangers is likely to put any flow restriction/pressure on the water pump, especially the 10 plate which I believe would have less flow.

    Haven't thought more about filters yet, CAVS vs spin etc, though i am thinking about collecting & filtering oil on the road, which might make a visible water trap a good visual indicator of the WVO processing.

    I'll probably loop the SVO, but still not sure on the diesel, I might leave that as a returning line. My logic here is one of air trapping, if I suspect an air leak, I can switch to a returning line (diesel) and see if symptoms clear. I also saw reference to a limited return line, which i'll look into as well.

    Cheers.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    WA
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    4,268

    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    You wrote
    One thing i'm still trying to work out is if three heat exchangers is likely to put any flow restriction/pressure on the water pump, especially the 10 plate which I believe would have less flow.
    If the heat exchangers are connected in parallel, across the heater circuit of the engine, then all heart exchangers will receive the same temperature coolant, providing maximum heating in each.
    The only downside to this connection is that it is possible that the cabin heater will have less coolant flow available to it.

    Winter is on its way, so you will soon be able to verify the cabin heater operation in cold conditions for your location.
    Unless you have problems keeping the cabin of the vehicle warm enough, I would not change from the parallel connection.
    If you are not using the hot water from your second 30 plate (eg while driving) then you could connect it in series with the other 30 plate heat exchanger (oil heating). This will reduce the coolant flow bypassing the cabin heater.

    I hope this helps,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. [Head gasket blew!]

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  8. #8
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    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    Ah, that does help a lot thanks Tony – timely too, I was just looking in to this further.

    Putting them in parallel hadn't occurred to me, I was going to connect them up in series (parallel to heater, when open).
    I was trying to find the coolant flow of my water pump (without luck) with which to do the calculations on flow.

    I will try with both 30's in series and put the 10 in parallel to begin with.

    Thanks.

  9. #9
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    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    Can i suggest to you that you might look at a helton dual cool for your first stage WVO heating and the hot water side ? This is what i have done with my suburban

    So down the back of the car is my Oil tank and the helton dual coil - one coil is used to heat the oil before it goes to the WVO pump and the filters (i have my CAV filters at the rear of the car), the 2nd coil is to provide a hot water loop when we go camping etc. I find this can deliver a couple of litres of water per minute at 45c or so. (I had to add a Bosch Water pump to this circuit to push my coolant from front to back)

    Then under the bonnet put your 30 plate FPHE - have both fuels run through it (add a little bit of SVO to your Diesel tank to remove issues with lubrication of DINO at higher temps)

    This means you will have both fuels at the same temp when they hit the IP so no issue of thermal shock (not sure i believe that is even really a concern or not). The only downside is that it takes longer to purge this way as you have a FPHE full of fuel to go through to purge properly.

    MY 30 FPHE hoolds 400mls of fuel so it only adds about 20 seconds to my purge time

    I do what you have suggested - i have a return line on my BIO startup tank to help with purging air and a looped return on my WVO tank

    Craig
    Holden Suburban K2500 1998 6.5L Turbo GM engine
    210,000KMs (90,000 on new crate motor)

    Currently 2 tanks in and working - 90 litre BIO tank and main tank of 160L WVO

    30 plate FPHE in Engine bay and Helton Dual coil in rear
    Walbro FRB-5 pusher pumps x 2

    50,000KM on Veg and 10,000Km on B100

  10. #10
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    South Coast, NSW
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    Re: HZJ75 - I want to be SVO enabled...

    Are the 30 FPHE good enough for your water heating requirements? (tony can you help?) On my truck i use the TWINE HX for showers etc on my old truck i had a helton dual coil HX for heating fuel.

    The Heltons are great and they customise too for quite reasonable rates i thought.
    Cheers
    Nick.
    Harold 2002 Toyota Landcruiser 105 series. 4.2lt turbo glide turbo, Too lazy to make bio nowdays times money. 3'' lift.

    Roidio 2001 Holden Rodeo 4x4 2.8L TD. 2.5" exhaust sytem, H/E shower system. 4" Lift, Airbags, And lots of fruit, B100 for 55,000 . SOLD

    Elsa 1983 Mercedes-Benz W123 300D. Still The Fastest Merc in Oz, Self built and Female proofed. COUSINS NOW

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