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Thread: Using unfiltered oil

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    933

    Re: Using unfiltered oil

    This is Alga's original posting with photos included.
    Any queries to Alga.

    Tim

    Quote Originally Posted by Alga View Post
    Here's a photo of our CF, 3 phase and cost $1500 from the USA. It runs off single phase power.




    The oil is lifted up by a 12v recovery winch and tips into the drum on the right through a mozzie wire filter in a tray.



    Then it gravity feeds into the CF and from their drained into the other tank, where it's pumped into a 500lt holding tank. Sadly only made the drum lift for round drums, so cubies have to be drained into a round drum first.




    It only takes one pass to get everything out and now we pour in the entire contents unless it gets so thick it comes out on globs. It comes out the CF as a caramel colour and left to sit settles with a layer of heavy oil at the bottom, but instantly blends when slightly shaken and goes through the throw away filter without trouble.

    Not sure how many passes the small CF will use, but hope to use one. However will include piping so it can make more passes if required. The small CF cost $350, from the UK

    For some reason can't seem to upload a photo, will try again another day.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    7

    Re: Using unfiltered oil

    Hi Blueff,
    Do you heat the WVO before you pump it through the centrifuge? I'm about to rig up and on-board centrifuge setup and trying to work out whether to use a big flat plate heat exchanger or not.
    Cheers

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lismore NSW
    Posts
    382

    Re: Using unfiltered oil

    Quote Originally Posted by delicaleo View Post
    Hi Blueff,
    Do you heat the WVO before you pump it through the centrifuge? I'm about to rig up and on-board centrifuge setup and trying to work out whether to use a big flat plate heat exchanger or not.
    Cheers
    I used to heat the oil when I had the CF stationary in the shed, but more because the oil was very average and I wanted everyone gone in one pass.
    Problem win on the road heating, where would you get enough heat from to heat the oil while running through the centrifuge? Heat exchanger would work, but you'll need the vehicle running. One could make a holding tank that is heated while traveling. But I think keep it simple, make sure to get some clean oil to start off with.
    1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)

    1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HDT conversion, 75l factory tank and a custom 170l under tray tank. (Retired with 680.000ks on the clock mostly running on BIO and on WVO)

    2006 Landcruiser Troopcarrier 1HZ with DTS Turbo Kit, 170ltr long range tank currently not converted, running on B100

    "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"


  4. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    532

    Re: Using unfiltered oil

    Quote Originally Posted by delicaleo View Post
    Hi Blueff,
    Do you heat the WVO before you pump it through the centrifuge? I'm about to rig up and on-board centrifuge setup and trying to work out whether to use a big flat plate heat exchanger or not.
    Cheers
    I've never heated the oil, even in winter and it has worked that way for many years. To my simple mind heating it may allow some crap to get through, the fuge does create some heat during the process. If you needed heat, you could plumb in a pipe from the vehicles HE and use that to heat the oil. Although it would require running the engine during the process, much easier to put the oil straight in dump the thick stuff that won't got through the system properly. Thicker oil I keep until summer then run it through the fuge, I settle the oil in 250lt drums, run of the crap and then have pretty clean oil to go into the fuge. This also means don't have to clean the fuge out as often and use the crap to make BD. Although haven't made any BD for awhile, the way have re-plumbed every engine, now it takes just 1lt to flush the engine fuel system and do that when stopped for the day by letting the engine idle down for 2 minutes, this flushes all the vo into the main tanks. It also adds a bit of bd/dino to the main tank which thins the oil a bit.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    7

    Re: Using unfiltered oil

    Thanks Blueff and Alga. The tricky bit is that because it's an onboard travelling system I don't have the opportunity to settle it which of course solves many problems. I will try wherever I can to get settled, clean oil, but I'm trying to make the system resilient so I can handle whatever I find.
    I hope my sizing calcs are correct but think a 50 plate, 3kg heat exchanger will do the job. I will have the engine running and am going for a high flow rate system for a few reasons - 1 is convenience, as I can quickly centrifuge oil from drums straight into my fuel tank, 2 is that it makes it much easier to do multiple passes if I think it needs it, and 3 is that the engine doesn't need to be running for a long time. The centrifuge size 60 from Scintex can do 11 litres per minute. The other main reason is that I can then swap the on board system to a bigger vehicle as I'm considering getting a 4x4 truck (Fuso Canter) in the future which could hold high volumes of oil.

    If I went the no-heat system, I can do it with the engine off, but I think the risk of blocking things in the process of finding out the oil quality isn't great is high and a pain in the bum.
    I tried to make a post about the whole system but seems I can't create new threads or moderators are on holidays..

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    7

    Re: Using unfiltered oil

    Quote Originally Posted by Alga View Post
    I've never heated the oil, even in winter and it has worked that way for many years. To my simple mind heating it may allow some crap to get through, the fuge does create some heat during the process.
    I've also read a bit about how heating can melt fats and make it impossible to separate them. But to my own simple mind this doesn't seem like much of an issue on the fuel consumption side as there are FPHEs before the injector pump. The only issue I can see with having fats in the treated oil would be scum in tanks and pipes - but like you say a simple purge to shut down should sort that out, which I plan to do as well.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    933

    Re: Using unfiltered oil

    I think you’d find that any system that will do 11 litres a minute is designed as/ best used as a multi pass system.
    Toyota Landcruiser 1988 HJ61 Manual Wagon
    12H-T turbo Direct Injection.
    Twin Tank setup runs on 100% WVO after warm up. 30 plate FPHE with 80C output, 12mm fuel lines
    Start up and shut down electric fuel pump feeds IP direct.
    Front 4WDSytstems Lokka, Rear ARB airlokka for quick escapes up sandhills. Performance GTurbo with 600mm FMIC gives 450nm @ 1700rpm at 20psi boost.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    7

    Re: Using unfiltered oil

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim-HJ61 View Post
    I think you’d find that any system that will do 11 litres a minute is designed as/ best used as a multi pass system.
    Hi Tim,
    would that hold for any centrifuge? The difference between a 4lpm and an 11lpm centrifuge is in the size of the unit. Pressures (say comparing the Scintex size 25 to the size 60) are the same, RPMs are the same, which means the bigger unit actually generates higher G forces. No issues with doing multiple passes but curious as to whether that's a question of size or process. Cheers

    EDIT - not 100% the RPMs are the same for different sizes but have seen some units which do 7000rpm at 10+ lpm.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    532

    Re: Using unfiltered oil

    With respect, you're trying to put the horse before the cart, which we all do when we don't understand and want to get the best out of our vo experience. In my experience with fuges, have found to get the best results, you strain the oil through a kitchen sieve into your fuge container and the fuge takes out all the rest. My big fuge is designed to run at 6000rpm, I've set it at 5000rpm and only do one pass at about 1lt every couple of minutes. It's not the rpm or fuge size that counts, its the rate of flow which make the difference between clean and dirty oil. It take about 4hrs to do 100lt, have done ti much faster, but then not everything is removed and to my mind, one pass is all you should have to do, do more and you are wasting time. Better to be a bit slower and get top results, than speedy and have trouble down the road.

    Also have a fine water filter after the fuge in case junk gets through and it does some times collect fats which gets through at the beginning of the process. Then have throw away filters before the main filters on my machines and vehicles, that way it stops any junk getting to the main filters and stopping the vehicle, It's so much easier to change a small throw away cheap in line filter on the road, than remove expensive main filters.

    Your idea about the filters on the vehicle picking up junk, may find you changing filters on the road constantly and believe me, have been down that road on a few occasions, because didn't set the fuge up properly. You'll get the best experience by having a slow feed to the fuge, then the oil will seat properly in the fuge and remove all the solids and water. If you feed it fast, no matter what they tell you, junk and water gets through, irrelevant to the speed of the fuge.

    Just realised, you're using an upside down fuge, they are complete crap and you end up with lots of stuff dropping into your oil. They are useless and designed for medical purposes, where there is no junk in the fluid. It's the oil which drives the fuge and there lies the problems, nothing I did would make it work right for vo and there are other members here that have had the same experience. If there is a blockage in the oil flow and the fuge slows, all the junk drops into the tank and you have to start again, plus you need pumps to create flow and get to a reasonable RPM. Until that happens, everything drops into the tank Spend a couple of hundred bucks more and get a real vo fuge, you can take those on the road, just need a cheap 1kw inverter to run it from you vehicle battery.

    The scintex video requires you to control the oil flow by diverting the oil as well as into the fuge, which means you get all the crap going into the clean oil and they don't take out any water. Any water in the oil and all used oil has some water in it, just drops the crap into the clean oil tank when it slows down.

    When I'm on the road, don't settle the oil and as it all works by gravity, no need for any pumps etc, just the fuge. It's also nice to know you have taken all the water out of the oil.
    Last edited by Alga; 10th February 2020 at 04:00 PM.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    7

    Re: Using unfiltered oil

    Thanks Alga, some new info and food for thought there. I have trawled these forums posts about centrifuges and have not come across the problem with slow fuge flow dropping the junk into the outflow. Am I missing some obvious posts about this issue? Would a simple inline fine mesh filter prevent that issue? Is your big fuge gravity fed? for the pumped systems shouldn't the high operating pressures over such small nozzles blast any material through and into the rotor bowl?
    Big learning curve so thanks for the info.

    EDIT: found your responses to this thread here - https://www.biofuelsforum.com/thread...hlight=scintex

    I've already bought the pump and motor, which is a 200W 12V DC motor powering a hydraulic gear pump. I can easily modify the flow rates by returning through a bypass. Some thoughts on a few of the problems you've mentioned are that I've got plenty of pump power to play with so can pump through a filter before the fuge if I'm having issues with blocked nozzles. The main drawcard for the centrifuge for me is the dewatering capability as I won't know what quality oil I'll come across. So putting a filter inline before it isn't a hassle.
    The prices on the gravity fuges are significantly higher from what I've found online.
    Last edited by delicaleo; 10th February 2020 at 04:44 PM.

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