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Thread: Filtering SVO in-situ

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    perth
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    Filtering SVO in-situ

    I'm setting up an SVO system for my ute with two SVO tanks - one slung under the tray on each side.

    Now, the biggest issue of course is filtering. It seems that most people filter the oil before it goes into the vehicle, but given the viscosity of oil this can be a fairly time-consumng process. I'd like to set up a system where it's all done on the car - after the oil is heated - this should make it easier.

    Has anyone done this? The real question I have is what level of filtration is required and possible?

    My plan is that each tank will have its won pump and filter. After the oil has been heated I turn on the pump and recycle it through the filter. It's sucked out of the bottom port, through a supercheap paper filter, and back into the top of the tank. I run it like this, perhaps for a day (while I'm driving the car) until no more solids are accumulating in the filter (changing it if necessary).

    When I'm happy that the paper filter has done all it's going to do (does anyone know the particle size that these things filter down to?) I change the position of the fuel cock and switch to it as my fuel source. Before the oil reaches the standard Mitsi filter it goes through a Frantz 1um filter, (http://www.frantzfilters.com.au/Products.htm) which should take out anything that gets through the paper filter.

    My Only concern is whether the hot oil will go through the Frantz element. I think it probably will as it's high surface area, but I'd be curious to know if anyone has used one of these on an SVO setup

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    WA
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    Re: Filtering SVO in-situ

    Mark,
    While I encourage you to proceed with your "on the go" filtering system, I see the following as issues which need to be considered:
    1. The toilet paper elements are known to develop "tracks" thru them which will allow oil to pass thru unfiltered.
    2. The flow rate is low when they are working properly.
    3. How will you know it is time to change the toilet rolls? Are you planning on having a pressure switch to let you know it is not flowing well?
    4. How will you know when the oil has been filtered completely?
    5. What about any heavy particulates which settle to the bottom of the tank. They will not be picked up by the filter until the tank level falls and sloshing fuel picks them up and allows them to flow to the fuel system. Perhaps using well settled fuel would prevent this.

    I hope this helps,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Re: Filtering SVO in-situ

    Re Tony's point 5. I have always been sceptical of filtering by cycling around the same vessel. It is fundamentally flawed in that you are returning the clean oil to a dirty container, it doesn't matter how many times you cycle it around you can never be sure all the oil has been filtered.
    Just like Tony says about the toilet roll/Franz filter, been there, rejected that. Another disadvantage of mobile filtering is you don't give settling a chance to happen. Settling is by far and away the easiest and best (but not quickest) way to clean oil.
    Johnnojack
    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 200000km on WVO,(2020) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids FPHE, heated filter fuel line and tank pickup for thicker oil. Mk. 9 version now and no changes planned as trouble free.
    Mercedes W201 190D 1986 model: 2 tank system, bigger fuel line from tank, no heat exchanger, electric pump for diesel 22000km so far

  4. #4
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    Nov 2014
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    perth
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    Re: Filtering SVO in-situ

    1. The toilet paper elements are known to develop "tracks" thru them which will allow oil to pass thru unfiltered
    Zat so? I didn't know that. I was in Autobarn the other day abd they had some generic fuel filters that were sintered glass. Has anyone used these? The advantage of these is that they could be backflushed and reused.
    How will you know it is time to change the toilet rolls? Are you planning on having a pressure switch to let you know it is not flowing well?
    No, I just change them once a fortnight - elements are only $2 each. I used to run them in my Landcruiser and just left them in until the car started to lose power and I had to change them by the side of the road. Not fun.

    Just like Tony says about the toilet roll/Franz filter, been there, rejected that.
    Have you tried them, or just rejected the idea? I've used them on my B100 for a while and they work well. My only concern with SVO is that the viscosity of SVO (even when heated) would be an issue.

  5. #5
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    Re: Filtering SVO in-situ

    Yes Doc I have tried them on veg and they did form tracks. Vegetable oil seems to soften the whole roll which can then move/compress to allow tracks to form. I have used the same filter elements on engine oil for many years and the filter does not do this but stays relatively rigid. Tell us more about the Autobarn filters.
    Johnnojack
    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 200000km on WVO,(2020) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids FPHE, heated filter fuel line and tank pickup for thicker oil. Mk. 9 version now and no changes planned as trouble free.
    Mercedes W201 190D 1986 model: 2 tank system, bigger fuel line from tank, no heat exchanger, electric pump for diesel 22000km so far

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    300

    Re: Filtering SVO in-situ

    Filtering is only time consuming if it's not set up properly. I regularly do 200L batches in less than 15 min hands on time and it could be faster if I was to automate the manual filling I do now for the exercise by pumping the oil in. Once I fill my processor it does it's thing untouched and I could easy have it shut down on its own when finished as well. 7.5 minutes a week average if you use 100L of oil a week does not seem time consuming to me. If you only use 50L a week, it's going to take you longer to put the fuel in the car than process it.

    The onboard thing is going to create more hassles and take far more time than it's worth. It seems your experience with veg is pretty limited, not the sort of base you want to be working from in trying to re invent the wheel.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    perth
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    Re: Filtering SVO in-situ

    Quote Originally Posted by peter1 View Post

    The onboard thing is going to create more hassles and take far more time than it's worth. It seems your experience with veg is pretty limited, not the sort of base you want to be working from in trying to re invent the wheel.
    True, but my experience with chemistry and filtration is anything but limited, and when it's all said and done, oil is just another chemical.

    Yes Doc I have tried them on veg and they did form tracks. Vegetable oil seems to soften the whole roll which can then move/compress to allow tracks to form. I have used the same filter elements on engine oil for many years and the filter does not do this but stays relatively rigid. Tell us more about the Autobarn filters
    Was it hot veg that you tried it on?

    The Autobahn filters have a sintered glass element, which is an interesting analogy to what happens in a lab. If I was going to filter a solution in a lab, my choice would be an old-fashioned Buchner funnel, where I'd use a filter paper, or a sintered glass funnel, where no paper is required. Sintered glass looks a bit like the airstones that you use in aquariums.

    The good thing about the sintered glass elements is that they'd be back-flushable and therefore reusable. They're more expensive ($9) than the SuperCheap paper ones, but that'd be offset if they could be reused. That's of course if I decided it was worth my time to try to save myself $9....

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
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    Re: Filtering SVO in-situ

    Mark,
    Comparison of filters (as you should know) is more than a price comparison, other factors to consider could include:
    Effective filter area
    Capacity (to hold contaminants)
    Design flow rate
    Micron rating (x microns [Absolute or Multi-pass])

    Do you have a link to the sintered glass filter? I am interested.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    241

    Re: Filtering SVO in-situ

    Hi Doc,

    Like the others, I congratulate you on your lateral thinking and adventurous spirit.

    Also like the others have suggested though, I believe that you would make better use of your time and money developing off car filtering systems.

    Simple is ALWAYS better. The core aspects of a simple and efficient filtering system in my opinion are gravity, time and heat (lack thereof that is). Others might argue with the latter but I can only go on my own experience.

    Almost any crap svo that you obtain will sort itself out into an over layer of clear oil and and under layer of gloop in a relatively short space of time. through gravity and if left undisturbed. An upflow storage system assists here and you simply only ever pump from the top layer. The settling process wont go nearly so well under an environment of perpetual motion!

    The cooler oil is when passing through the filter medium, the fewer the quantity of fats that will end up in your tank and in any onboard filters. Its sooo much more preferable to be able to clean and replace off board filters than to have to clean on board filters, the latter usually occurring at night, and on a busy four lane road and while its raining, and while you have a car load of tired and hungry kids, according to Mr Murphy.

    Laurie
    Last edited by Lozzer; 8th December 2014 at 01:11 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Southern Sydney
    Posts
    477

    Re: Filtering SVO in-situ

    yeah got to agree with most of the comments here. The off board filtering is so much easier.my set up using upflow drums, alltho took 8 to 10 weeks to feed, is now, 50 liters in 50 liters out. I could do more but i only use small amounts these days. If i need to fill up the 100 liter oil tank, i would do it over 3 or 4 days at a time. this would only be done if i knew i was planning a big trip. Cold filtering is my most preferred method. i only HPT every other batch, and so far the supplier i have has given me some really good dry oils.

    i have seen some guys using on the fly pump setups using bag filters in PVC pipe, 5 micron from memory. pump only the good top layer and discard the rest.

    the KISS principle is something that i learned from here, too many things can and will go wrong if you over complicate things. So far to date, i have 100 thous kays under the wheels. and only one major issue. Not oil fuel related, rather a mechanical issue with the IP. which as pointed out by the Deso mech's could not have been counted on. The hard chrome came off the impeller/ pump shaft and reeked havoc inside the pump.

    anyways, my 2 cents. and a big Thanks to those who helped my on this oily road trip.
    if it's FERAL, it's in PERIL.

    i too belong to P.E.T.A.
    people eating tasty animals.

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