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Thread: 1 litre test batch with new oil issues

  1. #1
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    1 litre test batch with new oil issues

    hi ,
    having issues with my 1 litre test batch below is what im doing ,
    1 litre new canola oil
    5.5g koh
    225ml methanol
    mix for 3 hours with a mini processor , 27/3 test during process

    It seems to pass the 27/3 test however it fails a wash test , seperates slowly , and ends up with a white layer between bio and water

    Any ideas on what im doing wrong would be appreciated

    cheers jasen

  2. #2
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    Re: 1 litre test batch with new oil issues

    Quote Originally Posted by jasen View Post
    hi ,
    having issues with my 1 litre test batch below is what im doing ,
    1 litre new canola oil
    5.5g koh
    225ml methanol
    mix for 3 hours with a mini processor , 27/3 test during process

    It seems to pass the 27/3 test however it fails a wash test , seperates slowly , and ends up with a white layer between bio and water

    Any ideas on what im doing wrong would be appreciated

    cheers jasen
    there is lots of different ways to get a result, but a basic recipe fix for you is to use 8 grams of potassium (base rate) and 200 ml meth. Are mixing meth and potassium first? If so on a 1 litre batch 10mins of mixing is heaps. I use 1 hr of mixing on a 200l batch.

    Good luck!

  3. #3
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    Re: 1 litre test batch with new oil issues

    thanks cade,
    yeah i mix the meth and pottasium first for 10mins then add to oil
    is the 8 grams as a base rate variable due to % strength of the KOH ?

  4. #4
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    Sep 2009
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    Brisbane (North Side)
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    Re: 1 litre test batch with new oil issues

    Quote Originally Posted by jasen View Post
    hi ,
    having issues with my 1 litre test batch below is what im doing ,
    1 litre new canola oil
    5.5g koh
    225ml methanol
    mix for 3 hours with a mini processor , 27/3 test during process

    It seems to pass the 27/3 test however it fails a wash test , seperates slowly , and ends up with a white layer between bio and water

    Any ideas on what im doing wrong would be appreciated

    cheers jasen
    there is lots of different ways to get a result, but a basic recipe fix for you is to use 8 grams of potassium (base rate) and 200 ml meth. Are mixing meth and potassium first? If so on a 1 litre batch 10mins of mixing is heaps. I use 1 hr of mixing on a 200l batch.

    Good luck!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Brisbane (North Side)
    Posts
    810

    Re: 1 litre test batch with new oil issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Captaincademan View Post
    there is lots of different ways to get a result, but a basic recipe fix for you is to use 8 grams of potassium (base rate) and 200 ml meth. Are mixing meth and potassium first? If so on a 1 litre batch 10mins of mixing is heaps. I use 1 hr of mixing on a 200l batch.

    Good luck!
    That's weird. Looks like I repeated myself! Whoops. Anyway, yes I use a base rate of 8grams plus titration for my potassium mixes. As you are using unused oil, the base rate is all you need. I wasn't very clear before, I mix my meth brew prior for about 5 mins, enough to dissolve the catalyst. Then this is pumped into the oil and mixed for 1 hour. I feel that 1 hour is overkill in my mixer, but it works, so I don't bother to change.

    Is is that a little clearer?

  6. #6
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    Apr 2016
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    Re: 1 litre test batch with new oil issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Captaincademan View Post
    That's weird. Looks like I repeated myself! Whoops. Anyway, yes I use a base rate of 8grams plus titration for my potassium mixes. As you are using unused oil, the base rate is all you need. I wasn't very clear before, I mix my meth brew prior for about 5 mins, enough to dissolve the catalyst. Then this is pumped into the oil and mixed for 1 hour. I feel that 1 hour is overkill in my mixer, but it works, so I don't bother to change.

    Is is that a little clearer?
    thanks heaps for your help,i really appreciate it , yeah it is a bit clearer.I did another new 1 litre test this arvo with 8g and 200ml of meth as you suggested, i pre mixed the methoxide for about 10 mins then poured it in while it was mixing.

    i switched off the mixer for 1 minute and took a sample of bio at the 30min mark let it settle for 10 mins in a beaker of water that was at 20 degrees ,then i did a 27/3 test and let it settle for 30min it had a drop of oil fallout about 3mm in diameter on, so i ran the mix for another hour and took another sample and it still had fallout of about 1mm diameter.so i ran it for a bit longer.

    will do 27/3 test tomorrow and a wash test (shake em up test ) and see what happens.

    i must be doing something wrong if you reckon a liter sample should only take 10 mins , at the moment im mixing with a power drill set up on a drill stand in a hdpe( 2) 2 litre milk container.

    thanks in advance

  7. #7
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    Re: 1 litre test batch with new oil issues

    Welcome to the forum. It is always good to get new blood on the forum.

    What temperature is your reaction at?
    You should aim for 50C
    10C increase / drop in reaction temp causes a halving / doubling of reaction time.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  8. #8
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    Re: 1 litre test batch with new oil issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    Welcome to the forum. It is always good to get new blood on the forum.

    What temperature is your reaction at?
    You should aim for 50C
    10C increase / drop in reaction temp causes a halving / doubling of reaction time.

    Regards,
    Tony
    thanks tony
    i pre heat to 55c and hold between 55c and 60c
    cheers jasen

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
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    Re: 1 litre test batch with new oil issues

    That is good, I react at 50C for 30 min and it gives good results.
    I settle for a few weeks, then decant into 60L drums so I can take them to my wife's garage for refueling.
    Mu pickup for the pump has a spacer to prevent picking up anything closer than 50mm from the bottom of the drum.
    I take the (almost) empty drums, swill them around a bit to pick up any byproduct which may have dropped out of the biodiesel, then pour it into a 20L drum to settle further. I drain off any byproduct after a week then return the remaining bio to my refueling drums.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    wootton
    Posts
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    Re: 1 litre test batch with new oil issues

    regarding the 1 litre test batch , what would be the reason for passing the 27/3 test and failing the wash test , i still get a slight white interface layer between the bio and water after settling for 30min after a shake em up test
    regards jasen

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