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Thread: Foolproof Room Temperature (FRT) Biodiesel

  1. #31
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    Re: Foolproof Room Temperature (FRT) Biodiesel

    Quote Originally Posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
    Hi Mark,

    I was doing a bit of light year six reading today, when I ran across this rather interesting scholarly paper.
    I immediately knew I needed to share part of it with everyone on this forum.

    Effects of Different Alcohol and Catalyst Usage on Biodiesel Production From Different Vegetable Oils
    http://akademikpersonel.kocaeli.edu....4.51.05sci.pdf

    In transesterification, a catalyst is used to enhance the reaction

    rate and improve the produced fuel’s features. Thus, the type
    of catalyst used in transesterification and its concentration are
    important. Among the catalysts used in transesterification,
    alkaline catalysts such as potassium hydroxide (KOH), sodium
    hydroxide (NaOH), sodium methoxide (CH3ONa), and so forth
    are more commonly preferred in proportion to acid and lipase catalysts
    because they are faster, room temperature is enough
    in the reaction,
    lower catalyst amount is sufficient to fulfill the

    reaction, and the fuels produced by using an alkaline catalyst
    are not corrosive in the engine’s metallic parts.

    It looks like I am correct
    The method will only proceed at room temperature with a sufficient concentration of catalyst, as the role of the catalyst is to lower the Ea. That was implicit in the article. If you were a chemist you would have understood that. Mine has plenty of catalyst. Please either alter the instructions for the Dr Pepper method to make it a RT method by removing any mention of heating, or find another thread to fill with your pointless posts. There are people on this thread that want to learn some chemistry. I'm sick of receiving private messages and emails from people that are scared to post on this public forum.
    A
    Last edited by Dr Mark; 11th April 2019 at 04:45 PM.

  2. #32
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    Re: Foolproof Room Temperature (FRT) Biodiesel

    Hi Mark

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    The method will only proceed at room temperature with a sufficient concentration of catalyst, as the role of the catalyst is to lower the Ea. That was implicit in the article.
    Of course you require a "sufficient concentration of catalyst". Everyone knows that.

    However, you are continually incorrectly claiming that the standard single stage base method of producing biodiesel will not proceed at room temperature because it lacks activation energy. This article clearly shows that you are incorrect.
    As you have been repeatedly told and shown, as long as everything remains liquid, temperature is not a limiting factor to the quality of the biodiesel produced when using the standard single stage base reaction


    If you were a chemist you would have understood that.
    If you had read the charts, you would see that what you are claiming is meaningless.
    If you read table 3 Page 2761 "Effects of Catalyst Type and Concentration (6:1 Methanol to Sunflower Oil; Room Temperature; 1 h)" you would have seen that a mere 0.5%/ about 4.65g of KOH per litre of oil was "
    a sufficient concentration of catalyst" to achieve an 82% conversion after just the first hour of mixing at room temperature.
    When they increased the catalyst to 1%/ about 9.25g KOH, the conversion increased to 97.85% after just the first hour of mixing at room temperature.
    For some reason you are using a massive 20g KOH per litre of oil.

    Unfortunately, you have never actually performed any testing on the conversion of the biodiesel you make.



    There are people on this thread that want to learn some chemistry. I'm sick of receiving private messages and emails from people that are scared to post on this public forum.
    I strongly suggest that anyone who actually wishes to learn some chemistry and how to make biodiesel should ask their questions on this forum and not bother Mark
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 17th April 2019 at 12:18 AM.

  3. #33
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    Re: Foolproof Room Temperature (FRT) Biodiesel

    Quote Originally Posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
    Hi Mark

    Of course you require a "sufficient concentration of catalyst". Everyone knows that.

    However, you are continually incorrectly claiming that the standard single stage base method of producing biodiesel will not proceed at room temperature because it lacks activation energy. This article clearly shows that you are incorrect.
    As you have been repeatedly told and shown, as long as everything remains liquid, temperature is not a limiting factor to the quality of the biodiesel produced when using the standard single stage base reaction


    If you had read the charts, you would see that what you are claiming is meaningless.
    If you read table 3 Page 2761 "Effects of Catalyst Type and Concentration (6:1 Methanol to Sunflower Oil; Room Temperature; 1 h)" you would have seen that a mere 0.5%/ about 4.65g of KOH per litre of oil was "
    a sufficient concentration of catalyst" to achieve an 82% conversion after just the first hour of mixing at room temperature.
    When they increased the catalyst to 1%/ about 9.25g KOH, the conversion increased to 97.85% after just the first hour of mixing at room temperature.
    For some reason you are using a massive 20g KOH per litre of oil.

    Unfortunately, you have never actually performed any testing on the conversion of the biodiesel you make.



    I strongly suggest that anyone who actually wishes to learn some chemistry and how to make biodiesel should ask their questions on this forum and not bother Mark
    I didn't bother reading your post, as I never do, despite the fact that you like to communicate on shouty big bold font.

    I make, however, the following observations:

    1. The Dr Pepper method still has a heating step. Mine doesn't. Therefore my method is the only room temperature method on this forum.
    2. The Dr Pepper method still has a heating step for the oil to "dry it." Mine doesn't, as unlike the Dr Pepper method, I do not add water to the solution in the methoxide solution.

    General Observations:

    1. Unlike me, you have no formal qualifications in chemistry. Given the quality of the advice you give to others (which is mostly wrong), I doubt that you've even completed high school chemistry.

    This is what you will now do:

    1. Not modify the Dr Pepper method, despite the fact that you say heating is not required. You will leave it the way it is, as due to to the fact that you introduce water to the methoxide solution (by a mechanism I've described but you plainly do not understand), the interfering reactions result in insufficient concentration of methoxide to lower the Ea to the point where it will proceed faultlessly and perfectly at room temperature. You know that if you remove both the heating step, and the oil drying step, the method will not work. That's why you won't modify it

    2. Respond to this post with a vague, pointless, and childish post in big shouty text.

    Mods: you seem to be unaware of the number of people that are scared to post on this forum. I've received a number of private emails from people with genuine questions. It is now a toxic place owing to a certain individual. My purpose in posting this method was to provide an alternative, simpler method to the Dr Pepper method. I do not bombard every post by someone using that method to tell them that they are using an inferior method. I let questions by those that use that method be answered by others that use that method. It should be a free exchange of ideas and people are free to use whatever method they want.

    I ask that the same courtesy be extended to me, and a certain individual be asked to refrain from any further posts on this thread. He has plainly demonstrated on several occasions that he doesn't understand the chemical principles upon which this method is based (I recall several childish references to "Le Chateleir's principle") and he is therefore not in a position to make any positive contributions. I'm happy to answer any genuine questions, but I know from my previous interactions that he won't understand my questions so I now don't bother.

    I'd like people to feel that they may comment freely (or ask questions) without being shouted down for their temerity in daring to use this method. His posts don't bother me personally, for the simple reason that I don't bother reading them, for the simple reason that when it comes to this method there is not a single thing I can learn from him.

    But other people have privately expressed their concerns and I therefore request that this be actioned.

  4. #34
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    Re: Foolproof Room Temperature (FRT) Biodiesel

    Hi Mark,
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mark View Post
    I didn't bother reading your post, as I never do, despite the fact that you like to communicate on shouty big bold font.
    I Never read your posts either



    I make, however, the following observations:

    1. The Dr Pepper method still has a heating step. Mine doesn't. Therefore my method is the only room temperature method on this forum.
    2. The Dr Pepper method still has a heating step for the oil to "dry it." Mine doesn't, as unlike the Dr Pepper method, I do not add water to the solution in the methoxide solution.

    General Observations:

    1. Unlike me, you have no formal qualifications in chemistry. Given the quality of the advice you give to others (which is mostly wrong), I doubt that you've even completed high school chemistry.
    This is the part that I find amusing.
    You are continually telling everyone what an intelligent and well educated chap you are and then you post something that everyone knows is not true. Do you think that continually posting inaccurate information that everyone knows is inaccurate enhances your standing on this forum?

    A really radical thought is that it might be time for you to do a few experiments to see what actually happens during the reaction.
    You need to find out why you are making such a large excess of by-product/ glycerine.
    Hint: using a huge excess of caustic leads to excessive soap production.
    Hint Hint: Even though you claim that your procedure is "utterly anhydrous" it is not, and even though you claim that the water in your oil has no affect on the reaction, it does.
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 24th April 2019 at 12:19 PM.

  5. #35
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    Re: Foolproof Room Temperature (FRT) Biodiesel

    Note to anyone reading this thread:

    1. The Dr Pepper method has two heating steps:

    > the "drying" process for the WVO
    > the heating step for the transesterification

    This method has none. You don't need to own a heater. Please refer to the videos. I make the biodiesel in an IBC.

    I only had to heat a batch once. I got lazy and tipped some water into the reactor that was sitting in the bottom of some of the drums. I had to heat the batch to about 23 deg (from 12) to initiate the reaction. Obviously if it had been in summer I wouldn't have needed to. Provided anhydrous conditions are maintained (explained in the instruction) heating is never required.

    The reason for this is that, unlike the Dr Pepper method I do not add water to the mixture with the methoxide solution. Please refer to the "chemistry of the glycerol phase" thread for a discussion of the chemistry of this process. I shall shortly be producing a calculation to enable you to calculate how much water you are adding to your mixture with your methoxide when you use the Dr Pepper method

  6. #36
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    Re: Foolproof Room Temperature (FRT) Biodiesel

    Mark,
    Please refer to the link in my signature line and go to the most recent post.
    You should be able to upload images within a Word file, which can be opened from your posts.
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. [Head gasket blew!]

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  7. #37
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    Re: Foolproof Room Temperature (FRT) Biodiesel

    I used the regular D.P method with new vegetable oil , potassium hydroxide , strong mixing , new dryish methanol to react at room temperature. I mixed it for maybe six hours with strong mixing. There is 10-15% water in my 85% potassium hydroxide. I used a 1 litre round bottom boiling flask to make the biodiesel, not a Doctor Pepper bottle. When I did the 10 90 solubility test (Warnquist?) there was no fall out, separation.

  8. #38
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    Re: Foolproof Room Temperature (FRT) Biodiesel

    Hi Everyone,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Note to anyone reading this thread:

    1. The Dr Pepper method has two heating steps:
    Just to clear up one point.
    When Mark says "The Dr Pepper method" he is talking about "the conventional method (the so-called Dr Pepper method)"

    It appears that about the only research Mark did prior to publishing this very flawed "Foolproof Room Temperature" procedure was to read the instructions to the World Famous Dr pepper Technique (Pat Pend)


  9. #39
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    Re: Foolproof Room Temperature (FRT) Biodiesel

    [QUOTE=Dr Mark;66583]Note to anyone reading this thread:

    1. The Dr Pepper method has two heating steps:

    > the "drying" process for the WVO
    > the heating step for the transesterification
    /QUOTE]

    Mark do you have trouble following instructions?
    I don't see two heating steps in the instructions.
    There is only one.
    The next step is a cooling step.

    Here it is just for your information.

    The COOLING STEP.

    MAKING THE BIODIESEL!
    When the Oil's temp has dropped to 55 deg c or a bit less, using a funnel, pour the litre of oil into a DRY 2 litre Dr Pepper bottle (in a pinch any other brand of bottle will do).
    Pour the methoxide on top of the oil using the same funnel.

  10. #40
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    Re: Foolproof Room Temperature (FRT) Biodiesel

    [QUOTE=Qwarla;66591]
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mark View Post
    Note to anyone reading this thread:

    1. The Dr Pepper method has two heating steps:

    > the "drying" process for the WVO
    > the heating step for the transesterification
    /QUOTE]

    Mark do you have trouble following instructions?
    I don't see two heating steps in the instructions.
    There is only one.
    The next step is a cooling step.

    Here it is just for your information.

    The COOLING STEP.

    MAKING THE BIODIESEL!
    When the Oil's temp has dropped to 55 deg c or a bit less, using a funnel, pour the litre of oil into a DRY 2 litre Dr Pepper bottle (in a pinch any other brand of bottle will do).
    Pour the methoxide on top of the oil using the same funnel.
    Fair enough. I stand corrected. The Dr Pepper method has one heating step.

    Mine has none. Heating is never required at any stage
    F

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