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Thread: The chemistry of the glycerol (and soap) phase

  1. #21
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    Re: The chemistry of the glycerol (and soap) phase

    Hi Mark,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    ...and have deluded yourself into thinking that you understand some chemistry just because you have learned a few big words,...
    Big words?

    I didn't think I was using big words.
    Which words that I use do you classify as "big Words"?
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 24th April 2019 at 12:59 PM.

  2. #22
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    Re: The chemistry of the glycerol (and soap) phase

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mark View Post
    The paper that Tony sent me contains some very useful data. I'll give a fuller explanation, now that I have some real numbers, as soon as I can figure out how to cut and paste figures from the paper. I saved them as jpg screen captures but for some reason they won't upload

    Wasn't aware of the 99.5% figure for ethanolic dehydration. Where did you get that from? I know for a fact that when organic chemists want to dehydrate an alcohol of any sort they use CaO - nothing works better. But 99.5% is probably good enough anyway. Although I now use cement, not CaO, which has other anhydrous compounds in there.

    Trying to make theoretical predictions in situations like this based on pKas is fraught with danger, for exactly the reasons you cite - different solvents, hydrogen bonding etc.
    T
    Can anyone tell me how to insert jpg or png figures into a post please? I can't continue this discussion without using some of the figures from the paper that Tony sent me, but every time I try to paste them it says "wrong file format."

    One more thing. As I've never used the Dr Pepper method I've no idea what quantities are used. If someone can give me a typical amount of KOH or NaOH that is used to make the methoxide solution I'll use the data in the paper that Tony sent me to calculate how much water you are adding to your mixture when you use the Dr Pepper method
    Last edited by Dr Mark; 29th April 2019 at 09:46 PM.

  3. #23
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    Re: The chemistry of the glycerol (and soap) phase

    Hi Mark,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    One more thing. As I've never used the Dr Pepper method I've no idea what quantities are used. If someone can give me a typical amount of KOH or NaOH that is used to make the methoxide solution...
    Do you really mean that you have no idea how to find out the Quantities used in the World Famous Dr Pepper Technique (Pat Pend)


    HINT: There is a sticky at the top of the Making Biodiesel Forum titled "World Famous Dr Pepper Technique (Pat pend)". If I were a betting man, I would bet that you can find all the quantities that you require mentioned there.
    Unfortunately there are a few big words in the thread. If you have any problem understanding anything please feel free to ask for help.
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 30th April 2019 at 04:31 PM.

  4. #24
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    Re: The chemistry of the glycerol (and soap) phase

    Please note:

    This is the only room temperature method on the web.

    The Dr Pepper method has two heating steps:

    1. Heating of WVO to "dry" it
    2. Heating the biodiesel mixture to facilitate the transesterification process.

    This method requires no heating at any stage

  5. #25
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    Re: The chemistry of the glycerol (and soap) phase

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mark View Post
    The Dr Pepper method has two heating steps:

    1. Heating of WVO to "dry" it
    2. Heating the biodiesel mixture to facilitate the transesterification process.
    You are wrong Mark or do you find pleasure in peddling misinformation?

    1 heating step, then
    1 cooling step.

    Go and actually read the instructions before having a hissy fit.

    MAKING THE BIODIESEL!
    When the Oil's temp has dropped to 55 deg c or a bit less, using a funnel, pour the litre of oil into a DRY 2 litre Dr Pepper bottle (in a pinch any other brand of bottle will do).
    Pour the methoxide on top of the oil using the same funnel.

  6. #26
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    Re: The chemistry of the glycerol (and soap) phase

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwarla View Post
    You are wrong Mark or do you find pleasure in peddling misinformation?

    1 heating step, then
    1 cooling step.

    Go and actually read the instructions before having a hissy fit.

    MAKING THE BIODIESEL!
    When the Oil's temp has dropped to 55 deg c or a bit less, using a funnel, pour the litre of oil into a DRY 2 litre Dr Pepper bottle (in a pinch any other brand of bottle will do).
    Pour the methoxide on top of the oil using the same funnel.
    I really don't understand why this is so difficult to understand. You've just told me with the Dr Pepper the oil has to be "heated" and then cooled to 55 degrees. I know it does. That's my point. My method was developed to eliminate the heating steps

    Don't you understand what I'm saying. The oil with my method never needs heating. Not having a hissy fit. Just stating a fact.

    The oil with my method does not have to be heated to be dried, and the reaction proceeds at room temperature.

    I do not own a heater, as I do not need one, ever.

    You don't need to spend money on a reactor vessel with a heater. You can make the batch in whatever you want. I use a plastic IBC, and make 1000L at a time.
    Last edited by Dr Mark; 30th April 2019 at 10:53 PM.

  7. #27
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    Re: The chemistry of the glycerol (and soap) phase

    Hi Mark,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mark View Post
    Please note:
    This is the only room temperature method on the web.
    Of course it is not. There are many room temperature methods of making biodiesel on the web.
    Surely you have heard about the method that makes biodiesel at room temperature using Fungi
    https://www.wired.com/2007/08/fungi-make-biod/

    And of course there is the room temperature method that uses egg shells as a catalyst. Everyone knows about this method.
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...16236116303933

    There is also everyone's favourite Room temperature method that uses coconut husk ash as a ctalyst. I can not believe you have never heard of this method. It is all the rage.
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...60544214004587

    And many others too numerous to list


    By the way, you have not yet reminded everyone today that you have two degrees in Chemistry.
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 30th April 2019 at 10:57 PM.

  8. #28
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    Re: The chemistry of the glycerol (and soap) phase

    Please note: my method is the only room temperature method on the web.

    It does not require heating at any stage.

    Note that you can watch videos of the process on my website here. There is an in-reactor temperature probe to measure the temperature
    Last edited by Dr Mark; 30th April 2019 at 11:25 PM.

  9. #29
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    Re: The chemistry of the glycerol (and soap) phase

    Hi Mark

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Please note: my method is the only room temperature method on the web.
    Surely it is not. Your procedure is only one of many room temperature methods on the internet.
    Besides the room temperature methods I listed above there is also the "Production of biodiesel at room temperature from palm olein oil"
    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...palm_olein_oil

    Of course there is also Room-Temperature Conversion of Soybean Oil and Poultry Fat to Biodiesel Catalyzed by Nanocrystalline Calcium Oxides
    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ef050435d

    Do not forget Room Temperature synthesis of biodiesel using sulfonated graphitic carbon nitride
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5172360/

    PS, I really think people are waiting for you to tell them that you have two degrees in chemistry


  10. #30
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    Re: The chemistry of the glycerol (and soap) phase

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    Mark,
    I did a quick Google and found (amongst others) http://www.arpnjournals.org/jeas/res..._0816_4863.pdf
    This gives the Molar ratios and the reaction coefficients for different reaction temperatures.
    Now, this should give us the ability to predict the amount of water for the given ratios of KOH and MeOH.
    I believe that Molar ratios are based on the relative mass of the feedstock eg KOH should have K (40), O (16), H (1) = 57, Methanol CH3OH would have C (12) H *4 (4) O (16) = 32
    In this case a molar ratio of 0.012 ( KOH:MeOH) would give mass ratios of (32*0.012):57 or 0.0067. Thus for a molar ratio of 0.012 KOH:MeOH you would need to add 6.7g of KOH per Kg of Methanol.

    For a reaction temperature of 25 and a molar ratio of 0.012, this would give us:
    KOH in solution 1.09%
    CH3OH in solution 96.91%
    CH3OK in solution 1.64%
    H2O in solution 0.81%

    Are my figures accurate?

    Please comment on this as I have only lower school Chemistry.
    Tony I've just set up a photohosting account at imjur. But no matter what I do it won't let me post an image.

    I post the images to the account and then cut and paste the URL but it keeps saying Invalid File

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