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Thread: Confusing problem with my biodiesel

  1. #21
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    Re: Confusing problem with my biodiesel

    Hi Mark,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    3. You don't need to dry your oil if you use my method.
    This is an incredible claim to make.
    I am sure you have carefully performed a test series that allows you to make such a breath-taking claim for your method.
    Please provide, in detail, the testing you performed and the results you achieved that allows you to make this amazing claim.



    4. If the reaction is incomplete, then heating it more will work with the Dr Pepper method, as it is a method that requires heating.
    This is simply an incorrect statement about the Dr Pepper method requiring heating.
    As has been shown many times, with any single stage base procedures including the World Famous Doctor Pepper Technique (Pat Pend), as long as everything remains liquid, the temperature the reaction is performed at is not a limiting factor to the results achieved

  2. #22
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    Re: Confusing problem with my biodiesel

    Hi Mark,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Few comments:
    1. mono and diglycerides are more reactive than triglycerides. So in a reaction that hadn't gone to completion you'd find some triglycerides but virtually no mono and diglycerides.
    I have a conversion graph that does not agree with your statement..
    According to the graph, while monglycerides never exceed about 7% of the total mass of the oil during the reaction, diglycerides are a very different story.
    At the point where the conversion to methylesters has reached about 46%, both the triglycerides and diglycerides are about 26% of the mass of the oil with the monoglycerides being the remainder.
    As Conversion increases the amount of triglycerides and diglycerides decrease pretty much together in the same ratio while monoglycerides never exceed about 7% of the total.

    At about 46% conversions the combined mass of the monoglycerides and diglycerides exceeds that of the triglycerides and this does not change all the way to completion.

    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 12th April 2019 at 04:56 PM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Confusing problem with my biodiesel

    Tilly,
    In the interest of open communications, can you please provide references (or better still, a URL of where it is located) for the graph you mentioned in the above post?

    Thank you
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    2000 Ford Courier Crew Cab 2.5L Turbodiesel on Blended veggie oil.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel. [Head gasket blew!]


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  4. #24
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    Re: Confusing problem with my biodiesel

    Hi Tony,

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    Tilly,
    In the interest of open communications, can you please provide references (or better still, a URL of where it is located) for the graph you mentioned in the above post?

    Thank you
    Tony
    I knew some one would ask that question.

    I made several photo copies of the graph years ago when Neutral told me it existed. At the time I spent several hours searching the internet and finally found it.
    Of course I noted the site where I found the graph.
    Unfortunately, when I checked back today, I discovered that the original site I got it from no longer exists.

    I have spent some time today attempting to relocate the graph, and I am happy to say that I did relocate it.
    It is fig 1 page 1639
    https://pubag.nal.usda.gov/pubag/downloadPDF.xhtml?id=19247&content=PDF
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 12th April 2019 at 08:56 PM.

  5. #25
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    Re: Confusing problem with my biodiesel

    More information here, graphs from mathmatical models that also don't seem to agree with Mark about the mono,Di and Tri distribution.
    http://www.biopowered.co.uk/forum/in...ic,2480.0.html
    Last edited by smithy; 13th April 2019 at 02:13 AM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Confusing problem with my biodiesel

    Hi Mark,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    3. You don't need to dry your oil if you use my method.
    I was doing a bit of light research today and I found the following post in the "New Methods #2. The Imisides Method" Thread on the Infopop forum posted by "Minder", one of your several Nom-de-plum's which said;
    "To answer this specific question, if you got soap in the batch, it's because the oil wasn't dry. This method is anhydrous, and will work best with dry oil.
    I once got lazy with this, but never again. I had a batch that I knew had some water in the oil, but went ahead anyway. The result was that the method didn't proceed at room temperature - a bit of a problem when you make 1000L at a time."
    http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/foru...083#8977047083

    So it would appear that, contrary to your above claim, along with every other single Stage Base procedure, your method does require dry oil

    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 14th April 2019 at 06:54 PM.

  7. #27
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    Re: Confusing problem with my biodiesel

    Quote Originally Posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
    Hi Mark,

    I was doing a bit of light research today and I found the following post in the "New Methods #2. The Imisides Method" Thread on the Infopop forum posted by "Minder", one of your several Nom-de-plum's which said;
    "To answer this specific question, if you got soap in the batch, it's because the oil wasn't dry. This method is anhydrous, and will work best with dry oil.
    I once got lazy with this, but never again. I had a batch that I knew had some water in the oil, but went ahead anyway. The result was that the method didn't proceed at room temperature - a bit of a problem when you make 1000L at a time."
    http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/foru...083#8977047083

    So it would appear that, contrary to your above claim, along with every other single Stage Base procedure, your method does require dry oil

    The water was free phase. That is, I actually tipped free phase water in that was sitting in the bottom of the drums. That was the "getting lazy" bit.

    I have never dried my oil. In fact I have used oil that has free phase water in the bottom of it, (without tipping it in) so it was (by definition) saturated with water.

    If you come and watch me make my next batch (on Sunday week) you will see that I don't even own a heater.

    All water problems in biodiesel manufacture come from using a method (the Dr Pepper method) that adds water with the methoxide. This is currently being discussed on the "Glycerol Phase" thread. Tony has uncovered a very useful paper that I'll fully explain once I work out how to insert images.

    Also, please note that Tillyfromparadise has no formal qualifications in chemistry. He thinks that big shouty font is a substitute for knowledge.

    Regrettably, it isn't. Take his advice at your peril

    Having corrected this misconception regarding my method I will be making no further contributions to this thread.

    If you want to join the growing number of people that are now communicating with me privately because they are scared to post on this forum, my email is mark@drchemical.net
    Last edited by Dr Mark; 23rd April 2019 at 11:05 PM.

  8. #28
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    Re: Confusing problem with my biodiesel

    Hi Mark,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mark View Post
    The water was free phase. That is, I actually tipped free phase water in that was sitting in the bottom of the drums. That was the "getting lazy" bit.
    I have never dried my oil. In fact I have used oil that has free phase water in the bottom of it, (without tipping it in) so it was (by definition) saturated with water.
    Of course putting the oil in a drum and allowing the free water to settle out is, by definition, drying your oil. The Water remaining in your oil is likely to be
    exacerbating your soap production problem.
    The huge excess of KOH you use along with the water remaining in the oil produces a large excess of soap that ends up in the byproduct/ glycerol layer resulting in a larger than normal by-product/ glycerol layer



    If you come and watch me make my next batch (on Sunday week) you will see that I don't even own a heater.
    I do not own a heater either. I also do not make anywhere near 22% by-product/ glycerol like you say you do.



    All water problems in biodiesel manufacture come from using a method (the Dr Pepper method) that adds water with the methoxide.
    You just said that you had a problem when you added free water to your procedure.
    I have never had a water problem with a production batch and I do not use heat to dry the oil or heat to perform the reaction.
    I just leave my oil sit in a sealed 200 litre drum for a year or three and use it as required.

    In testing I have produce problems people are likely to experience with water in their oil, however I gather you do not do any testing so you are not aware that the 22% by- product/glycerol you say you have is not normal when using 17% methanol as you do.


    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 24th April 2019 at 02:08 AM.

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