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Thread: My first wash. AARGGHH

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Brisbane (North Side)
    Posts
    800

    Re: My first wash. AARGGHH

    Hi Michael,

    good to hear from you mate. You still brewing? if so I would love to show you my setup now. its quite 'hitec'.. you would love it. I still have your blue drum as well for you.

    yes I always aspired to the lofty heights of polished fuel, however it was hard to justify the extra time and effort when I read about all of the bubbling washing required.

    this method seems very simple and fast, with bugger all waste water to dispose of.

    I keep looking at my sample jars that I heated to 180 degree plus, and then cold filtered, and I cant help but think that method is the absolute bees knees. that fuel is lighter in colour than a bright beer, and as clear as water. very different looking fuel. I will still lend my mind to working out how to do it safely as I dont beleive it requires any washing processes.

    all food for thought. but right now I happy to learn this process properly, and get good repeatable results.

    side note - it is surprisingly quick to heat up 200 litres of oil to 100 degrees using a standard hot water system as your brewer.
    Regards,

    Cade.

    2006 Landcruiser HDJ100 (1HD-FTE) 20,000 on bio
    2006 Ford Courier(WLT Motor), 10,000 on bio
    2002 Landcruiser HZJ105r (1HZ motor) 250,000 on bio (sold)
    2006 Mazda B2500 (WLT motor) 80,000 on bio (sold)



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    ลึก ประเทศอินเด&
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    Re: My first wash. AARGGHH

    Hi Cade,
    Yes, the 5% pre-wash is certainly counter intuitive, but it does work- I have done it before when I was water-washing my biodiesel.

    The amount of yield gain will depend on the titration of the WVO.

    Just a quick explanation.
    Neutral performed experiments that showed that for every 1% soap produced in the reaction, the soap will take about 2% biodiesel into the glycerin layer with it.

    EXAMPLE
    WVO with a KOH titration of 2 equates to the WVO containing about 1% FFA's which, during the reaction will be converted into about 1% soap.
    This soap is of course a reduction in your yield in the order of 1%
    However, when this 1% soap settles out with the glycerine, it binds with about 2% biodiesel and the biodiesel also goes into the glycerine along with the soap.
    You then have a total loss of volume of around 3%, 1% being soap and 2% being biodiesel.
    It is some of this biodiesel that is bound with the soap that is released from the soap and returns to the biodiesel layer and so you have an increase in yield.

    However, from the reading I have done, it seems that the bigger advantage of this procedure lies in a significant reduction in wash time.
    "The concept is that you add water after the reaction is complete, but before settling has started. This helps the settling process, giving a faster more complete settling. Testing has shown a 30% to 50% reduction in soaps in the unwashed biodiesel. I have seen 95% settling in as little as 30 minutes"
    http://www.make-biodiesel.org/Biodie...r-prewash.html
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 15th August 2019 at 06:32 PM.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Brisbane (North Side)
    Posts
    800

    Re: My first wash. AARGGHH

    Excellent. Thanks for the good explanation in lay terms. So on the yield side of things I can possibly gain 4 litres of bio from putting in 10 litres of water and mixing for another 20 mins I think it said?

    And I can then possibly get away with only one additional wash cycle, or go for the second and get a further gain in quality.

    That sounds like a plan.
    Regards,

    Cade.

    2006 Landcruiser HDJ100 (1HD-FTE) 20,000 on bio
    2006 Ford Courier(WLT Motor), 10,000 on bio
    2002 Landcruiser HZJ105r (1HZ motor) 250,000 on bio (sold)
    2006 Mazda B2500 (WLT motor) 80,000 on bio (sold)



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lismore NSW
    Posts
    362

    Re: My first wash. AARGGHH

    Quote Originally Posted by Captaincademan View Post
    Hi Michael,

    good to hear from you mate. You still brewing? if so I would love to show you my setup now. its quite 'hitec'.. you would love it. I still have your blue drum as well for you.
    Dou we have a volunteer and place for our next bio BBQ gathering I wonder???

    Cade, I have installed one of these, makes life a lot easier in terms of water amounts

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-...QAAOSwq6VcAPfX

    I just dump the water in while the glycerin is still in the tank, let the paddle mix for a minute or two and then turn it all off and let it settle, one more wash gives me bright and clear fuel. So far that's good enough for me

    Hi Michael, good to see you're still floating around on the forum.

    would be great to catch up with you lot again.
    1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)
    1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HDT conversion, 75l factory tank and a custom 170l under tray tank.
    Lots of K's on BIO and on WVO

    "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"


  5. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Brisbane (North Side)
    Posts
    800

    Re: My first wash. AARGGHH

    Mate thats very cool. It would be sub zero though if it could close a valve on a preset value!

    Me thinks I will get one of those. much more accurate than what I was doing. I am going to order one today. I might see if i can get one that will close a valve though. thanks for the heads up.

    Hell I would love to host a BBQ again! not sure how many active members there are around the traps in SE qld / Lismore though?

    I better shift this to a different thread. going off topic.
    Regards,

    Cade.

    2006 Landcruiser HDJ100 (1HD-FTE) 20,000 on bio
    2006 Ford Courier(WLT Motor), 10,000 on bio
    2002 Landcruiser HZJ105r (1HZ motor) 250,000 on bio (sold)
    2006 Mazda B2500 (WLT motor) 80,000 on bio (sold)



  6. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lismore NSW
    Posts
    362

    Re: My first wash. AARGGHH

    Yeah, I selected the wrong one, too early in the day, this one is better,

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-...AAAOSwI~FdEcU0

    works a treat.

    off topic,

    I'd be up for a visit in the big smoke to catch up with you lot.
    1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)
    1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HDT conversion, 75l factory tank and a custom 170l under tray tank.
    Lots of K's on BIO and on WVO

    "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"


  7. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    York UK
    Posts
    127

    Re: My first wash. AARGGHH

    Quote Originally Posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
    Hi Cade,
    Yes, the 5% pre-wash is certainly counter intuitive, but it does work- I have done it before when I was water-washing my biodiesel.

    The amount of yield gain will depend on the titration of the WVO.

    Just a quick explanation.
    Neutral performed experiments that showed that for every 1% soap produced in the reaction, the soap will take about 2% biodiesel into the glycerin layer with it.

    EXAMPLE
    WVO with a KOH titration of 2 equates to the WVO containing about 1% FFA's which, during the reaction will be converted into about 1% soap.
    This soap is of course a reduction in your yield in the order of 1%
    However, when this 1% soap settles out with the glycerine, it binds with about 2% biodiesel and the biodiesel also goes into the glycerine along with the soap.
    You then have a total loss of volume of around 3%, 1% being soap and 2% being biodiesel.
    It is some of this biodiesel that is bound with the soap that is released from the soap and returns to the biodiesel layer and so you have an increase in yield.

    However, from the reading I have done, it seems that the bigger advantage of this procedure lies in a significant reduction in wash time.
    "The concept is that you add water after the reaction is complete, but before settling has started. This helps the settling process, giving a faster more complete settling. Testing has shown a 30% to 50% reduction in soaps in the unwashed biodiesel. I have seen 95% settling in as little as 30 minutes"
    http://www.make-biodiesel.org/Biodie...r-prewash.html
    Hi John, Didn't Neutral actually say that for every 2 litres of soap produced it takes 1 litre of biodiesel with it into the glycerol layer.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    ลึก ประเทศอินเด&
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    Re: My first wash. AARGGHH

    Hi Dgs,

    Quote Originally Posted by smithy View Post
    Hi John, Didn't Neutral actually say that for every 2 litres of soap produced it takes 1 litre of biodiesel with it into the glycerol layer.
    No.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Brisbane (North Side)
    Posts
    800

    Re: My first wash. AARGGHH

    Ok fellas, I’m a convert. Did what you reckon with the 5% prewash and it worked fine. No real noticeable increase in yield though. The only thing I have found that I need the second heat cycle after the second wash to clear the fuel. Problem is I found it needs to cool down before it is subsequently heated. This means I am not yet at a stage where I can make fuel ready to use in one day. The brewer is still insulated which is essential for me to able reach temperature, but it’s a curse for cooling the brew. I turned off the heater late yesterday afternoon after the second wash, and it’s still 45 degrees now as I write this. Big Shed doors were open all night. About 10 degrees over night.

    I just turned heater back on now to clear it up as per Tilly’s observations. So I can do it in 2 days, but not 1.

    Very happy with my progress so far though
    Regards,

    Cade.

    2006 Landcruiser HDJ100 (1HD-FTE) 20,000 on bio
    2006 Ford Courier(WLT Motor), 10,000 on bio
    2002 Landcruiser HZJ105r (1HZ motor) 250,000 on bio (sold)
    2006 Mazda B2500 (WLT motor) 80,000 on bio (sold)



  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    ลึก ประเทศอินเด&
    Posts
    2,102

    Re: My first wash. AARGGHH

    Hi Cade,

    Quote Originally Posted by Captaincademan View Post
    Ok fellas, I’m a convert. Did what you reckon with the 5% prewash and it worked fine. No real noticeable increase in yield though.
    Yes, there is not a huge increase in yield
    This is what Neutral posted about the testing he performed with it.
    Around a 3% increase with WVO containing about 5% FFA.

    "My own experiments with a fairly low grade oil of about 5% FFA showed the following:

    Water %, Yield %
    __0.0_____84.4
    __3.5_____86.5
    __5.5_____87.3
    __7.5_____87.3
    _15.0_____87.0
    _20.0_____87.2

    where Yield % is the weight of washed and dried fuel relative to the weight of oil used. A standard base-only reaction was done."

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