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Thread: 1st time WVO blending

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    285

    1st time WVO blending

    Hello Team,

    I've been out of action for about 9 months since moving from Sydney to Canberra. Bio plant is in storage. Have, unfortunately, been running dino mostly over this time, grabbing some bio from @Timorcoco when I can.

    But I've recently been lucky enough to secure about 250L of well-strained and settled WVO in 20L cubies from @Bigboy.

    Now that we aren't looking at sub-zero temps overnight here, I'm thinking about blending this with dino diesel in the Rodeo. It has a 55 L tank, so was going to add 20 L WVO and top-up with diesel.

    @Timorcoco has set me up with a 2-stage gravity filter with primary stage of >10mm and secondary 10mm stage. Pics here:

    What are your thoughts about my proposal? 20L straight into the main tank, topped up with 35L dino giving me an initial concentration of 36% WVO, which I guess will increase slightly over time.

    Should I add another quick-change filter between the tank and my CAV filter (which I used to replace the OEM filter / separator many years ago)? I was thinking an EFI filter with metal housing and high surface area with 8mm hose barbs on either end like the Ryco Z200, which is 55mm in diameter and 140mm long. This would allow me to do a quick change on the fly and protect the main filter, which is a lot more fiddly and messy to change. My concern is that the lift pump inside the IP might struggle to pull higher viscosity fuel through 2 filters. I do have my little Facet clickey-clack electric pump installed inline though, but don't like the idea of running it continuously if I don't need to.

    Would be interested in your thoughts.
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    Last edited by 3DB; 11th October 2020 at 09:32 AM. Reason: typos
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016 - SOLD
    1994 Peugeot 405 SRDT 1.9L intercooled turbo diesel (Shitbox Rally car.) - B100 since August 2019 - SOLD
    @thirddegreeburns on Instagram
    @thirddegreeburns2019 on Facebook

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,329

    Re: 1st time WVO blending

    Why not get a few of these prefilters? They can be back flushed with petrol to clean them. They are the prefilter for a Mercedes 300D ('77-'84)
    Quote Originally Posted by 3DB View Post
    Hello Team,

    I've been out of action for about 9 months since moving from Sydney to Canberra. Bio plant is in storage. Have, unfortunately, been running dino mostly over this time, grabbing some bio from @Timorcoco when I can.

    But I've recently been lucky enough to secure about 250L of well-strained and settled WVO in 20L cubies from @Bigboy.

    Now that we aren't looking at sub-zero temps overnight here, I'm thinking about blending this with dino diesel in the Rodeo. It has a 55 L tank, so was going to add 20 L WVO and top-up with diesel.

    @Timorcoco has set me up with a 2-stage gravity filter with primary stage of >10mm and secondary 10mm stage. Pics here:

    What are your thoughts about my proposal? 20L straight into the main tank, topped up with 35L dino giving me an initial concentration of 36% WVO, which I guess will increase slightly over time.

    Should I add another quick-change filter between the tank and my CAV filter (which I used to replace the OEM filter / separator many years ago)? I was thinking an EFI filter with metal housing and high surface area with 8mm hose barbs on either end like the Ryco Z200, which is 55mm in diameter and 140mm long. This would allow me to do a quick change on the fly and protect the main filter, which is a lot more fiddly and messy to change. My concern is that the lift pump inside the IP might struggle to pull higher viscosity fuel through 2 filters. I do have my little Facet clickey-clack electric pump installed inline though, but don't like the idea of running it continuously if I don't need to.

    Would be interested in your thoughts.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    19

    Re: 1st time WVO blending

    In my Discovery 300TDI I run the factory sedimenter then to a prefilter much like the one Tony posted. I cut my WVO with around 10% petrol, this helps thin it a bit when filtering, I have run this mix at about 50-50 with diesel in cold Melbourne temps without any issues. At one stage I was having trouble starting so went back to diesel only to find out it was a faulty lift pump.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    285

    Re: 1st time WVO blending

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    Why not get a few of these prefilters? They can be back flushed with petrol to clean them. They are the prefilter for a Mercedes 300D ('77-'84)
    Hi Tony,

    I have a few of these MANN WK 31/5 pre-filters left over from the Merc 300D I had. I can't see a micron rating for them on the MANN website, but my understanding was that it would be much larger than 10 micron and I think I recall someone on this forum affectionately referring to them as 'rock catchers' once. So if I am filtering my WVO through a 10 micron bag filter, it will catch anything and more than the MANN pre-filter will, making them kind of redundant, wouldn't it (assuming there are no large particles in my fuel tank already)?

    My concern is any particles less than the 10 micron rating of the bag filter might prematurely block the vehicle filter to the point where it will be a pain in the neck to change on the side of the road. Having said that. Iíve just done a bit of research on filter specifications and it is pretty hard to get an accurate comparison due to the ĎBetaí rating. MANN do not give any details, but the OEM filter has rating of ď10mm @ 50% (Beta 2)Ē, which means that for every 2 particles 10 micron or larger this filter will capture at least one of them.

    Iím told that this is roughly equivalent to 30mm @ 95% (Beta 20).

    So in summary, it is all as clear as mud and I guess if Iíve filters through a 10 mm bag filter (@ who knows what % / Beta!) most of the sh!t should be out of it and my vehicle filleter will be apples.

    Iím going to run with that and see how I go. I have 3 spare filter cartridges on board.
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016 - SOLD
    1994 Peugeot 405 SRDT 1.9L intercooled turbo diesel (Shitbox Rally car.) - B100 since August 2019 - SOLD
    @thirddegreeburns on Instagram
    @thirddegreeburns2019 on Facebook

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    285

    Re: 1st time WVO blending

    Quote Originally Posted by fattima View Post
    In my Discovery 300TDI I run the factory sedimenter then to a prefilter much like the one Tony posted. I cut my WVO with around 10% petrol, this helps thin it a bit when filtering, I have run this mix at about 50-50 with diesel in cold Melbourne temps without any issues. At one stage I was having trouble starting so went back to diesel only to find out it was a faulty lift pump.
    Hi Fattima,

    Is your factory sediment a stand-alone unit without the filter? So the fuel comes from your tank to the sediment / water trap, then to the pre-filter then to the main filter, then to the IP? I like this idea more and think I might move back to a separate sediment / water trap in the future. My CAV is integrated so the filter sits on top of the glass bowl, which does not have a lot of capacity.

    I guess as biofuelers, you have a lot better control over water in your fuel than than I do visiting a servo a lot.
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016 - SOLD
    1994 Peugeot 405 SRDT 1.9L intercooled turbo diesel (Shitbox Rally car.) - B100 since August 2019 - SOLD
    @thirddegreeburns on Instagram
    @thirddegreeburns2019 on Facebook

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,329

    Re: 1st time WVO blending

    Quote Originally Posted by 3DB View Post
    Hi Tony,

    I have a few of these MANN WK 31/5 pre-filters left over from the Merc 300D I had. I can't see a micron rating for them on the MANN website, but my understanding was that it would be much larger than 10 micron and I think I recall someone on this forum affectionately referring to them as 'rock catchers' once. So if I am filtering my WVO through a 10 micron bag filter, it will catch anything and more than the MANN pre-filter will, making them kind of redundant, wouldn't it (assuming there are no large particles in my fuel tank already)?

    My concern is any particles less than the 10 micron rating of the bag filter might prematurely block the vehicle filter to the point where it will be a pain in the neck to change on the side of the road. Having said that. Iíve just done a bit of research on filter specifications and it is pretty hard to get an accurate comparison due to the ĎBetaí rating. MANN do not give any details, but the OEM filter has rating of ď10mm @ 50% (Beta 2)Ē, which means that for every 2 particles 10 micron or larger this filter will capture at least one of them.

    Iím told that this is roughly equivalent to 30mm @ 95% (Beta 20).

    So in summary, it is all as clear as mud and I guess if Iíve filters through a 10 mm bag filter (@ who knows what % / Beta!) most of the sh!t should be out of it and my vehicle filleter will be apples.

    Iím going to run with that and see how I go. I have 3 spare filter cartridges on board.
    My veggie oil is long term settled then filtered thru a 10 micron mesh filter (lined with a T shirt material sock), then sits in 20L cubies for months before being put into my fuel tank. There is some fine sediment in the bottom of each cubie after emptying into my fuel tank.

    My Musso and Rexton vehicles each have had only about 10,000km on veggie. I have had to clean the prefilter on each vehicle many times due to dead "diesel bug" which has been killed by the veggie oil. I have only had to change the fuel filter once on each vehicle in the 10,000km the vehicle has travelled on veggie oil blend.
    I still check the prefilter when I refuel each vehicle and clean it if it needs it.
    Cleaning the prefilter is a simple exercise. I remove the pre-filter and blow in the reverse direction to fuel flow. I then add a little bit of ULP and shake the pre-filter with a finger / thumb on each port to stop petrol spraying out. I then blow the petrol out (again in the reverse direction to fuel flow). By this time, the filter is looking almost as clean as a new one. I reinstall the pre-filter and start the engine. Because the filter is so small, the air introduced into the fuel system does not cause any issue with engine running.

    If the engine suffers fuel starvation as a result of a blocked pre-filter, I replace it with a cleaned one and put the blocked one in a ziplock bag to be cleaned at home. Cleaning a blocked one takes a lot more time than cleaning a dirty one.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    285

    Re: 1st time WVO blending

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    My veggie oil is long term settled then filtered thru a 10 micron mesh filter (lined with a T shirt material sock), then sits in 20L cubies for months before being put into my fuel tank. There is some fine sediment in the bottom of each cubie after emptying into my fuel tank.

    My Musso and Rexton vehicles each have had only about 10,000km on veggie. I have had to clean the prefilter on each vehicle many times due to dead "diesel bug" which has been killed by the veggie oil. I have only had to change the fuel filter once on each vehicle in the 10,000km the vehicle has travelled on veggie oil blend.
    I still check the prefilter when I refuel each vehicle and clean it if it needs it.
    Cleaning the prefilter is a simple exercise. I remove the pre-filter and blow in the reverse direction to fuel flow. I then add a little bit of ULP and shake the pre-filter with a finger / thumb on each port to stop petrol spraying out. I then blow the petrol out (again in the reverse direction to fuel flow). By this time, the filter is looking almost as clean as a new one. I reinstall the pre-filter and start the engine. Because the filter is so small, the air introduced into the fuel system does not cause any issue with engine running.

    If the engine suffers fuel starvation as a result of a blocked pre-filter, I replace it with a cleaned one and put the blocked one in a ziplock bag to be cleaned at home. Cleaning a blocked one takes a lot more time than cleaning a dirty one.
    Ok you've sold me on the pre-filter, Tony. Even though my Rodeo has mostly been on B100 for the last nearly 8 years / 90,000 km and has never had a filter blockage other than the 1st time I put bio in it in 2013. My hesitation with using the pre-filters is that they have no barbed ends and I find it hard to get a good seal on them with a hose clamp. This is mainly because I've been using non-rubber (I think maybe PVC) fuel hose that I got from Pirtek because the bio was rapidly destroying the standard rubber ones. i think is actually air line hose. Seals fine if there are hose barbs, but last time I tried the Merc pre-filters it leaked air bad. Maybe time to re-think fuel line hose again.
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016 - SOLD
    1994 Peugeot 405 SRDT 1.9L intercooled turbo diesel (Shitbox Rally car.) - B100 since August 2019 - SOLD
    @thirddegreeburns on Instagram
    @thirddegreeburns2019 on Facebook

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    19

    Re: 1st time WVO blending

    Quote Originally Posted by 3DB View Post
    Hi Fattima,

    Is your factory sediment a stand-alone unit without the filter? So the fuel comes from your tank to the sediment / water trap, then to the pre-filter then to the main filter, then to the IP? I like this idea more and think I might move back to a separate sediment / water trap in the future. My CAV is integrated so the filter sits on top of the glass bowl, which does not have a lot of capacity.

    I guess as biofuelers, you have a lot better control over water in your fuel than than I do visiting a servo a lot.
    Yep the Discovery has a sedimenter after the tank then to a pre filter I installed then to the main filter and then the IP.
    I filter my oil roughly through an old sheet, then settle for a few months then run it through my centrifuge made from an old veggie juicer. Never had any issues and have run the Disco for over 10,000K so far

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,236

    Re: 1st time WVO blending

    Fuel hose
    I used to get plain old stuff, it swelled, got sticky, then leaked, barely lasted a year. Then I tried Goss fuel injection hose. Lasts at least 3 years then slowly goes a little bit stiff. When you have about 18 pieces of fuel hose under the bonnet and 36 clamps it pays to use good hose.
    Johnnojack
    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 200000km on WVO,(2020) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids FPHE, heated filter fuel line and tank pickup for thicker oil. Mk. 9 version now and no changes planned as trouble free.
    Mercedes W201 190D 1986 model: 2 tank system, bigger fuel line from tank, no heat exchanger, electric pump for diesel 22000km so far

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    285

    Re: 1st time WVO blending

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnojack View Post
    Goss fuel injection hose.
    Where can I purchase this magical hose?
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016 - SOLD
    1994 Peugeot 405 SRDT 1.9L intercooled turbo diesel (Shitbox Rally car.) - B100 since August 2019 - SOLD
    @thirddegreeburns on Instagram
    @thirddegreeburns2019 on Facebook

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