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Thread: Room Temperature Biodiesel process

  1. #11
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    Re: Room Temperature Biodiesel process

    Quote Originally Posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
    G,day Bueff,Whether you add cement to the mix or not, the reaction goes at room temperature. As far as I have been able to tell, adding cement to the mix does nothing and offers no benefit. I have made biodiesel at room temperature for years without adding cement.
    However, I do intone the "Happy biodiesel warriors chant" when I first turn the mixer on.
    Tilly,
    Have you actually tried this procedure?
    If not, perhaps you can try it yourself, rather than just putting it down as BS.
    The only things you could possibly lose are the cost of ingredients and the time to process the batch.


    Tony

    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
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    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
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  2. #12
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    Re: Room Temperature Biodiesel process

    I did the proceedure on 9/17/2017 , my notes on it aren't very good . First I used Magnesol on new corn oil to remove as much of the free fatty acids as I could , so that wouldn't complicate my results . I used 100 milliliters dry methanol , added 4 grams potassium hydroxide then 2 grams calcium oxide at 3:25 PM . Stirred for 1 hour . Room temperature was 22 degrees celcius . At 4:29 PM I poured 325 milliliters of free fatty acid free new corn oil into the prepared methoxide solution , with stirring . At 4:58 PM did a 10/90 Warnquest test , there was 1 milliliter of white solid fallout . At 5:50 PM turned off magnetic stirring and a regular glycerine layer formed . I did this about 3 years ago . I don't remember all the details , but it worked .

  3. #13
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    Re: Room Temperature Biodiesel process

    G'day Tony,
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    Tilly,
    Have you actually tried this procedure?
    Yes, I did a test series and posted the results to this forum.
    I specifically went to Bunnings and bought a bag of their finest Cement powder to perform the tests.
    It made no difference. Save your money and time.

  4. #14
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    Re: Room Temperature Biodiesel process

    What people seem to be overlooking is that this is a meaningless procedure. The reaction goes at ambient temperature with or without the cement powder.
    It is just fairy dust. Adding cement powder makes no difference.
    As long as everything remains liquid, temperature is not a limiting factor.

  5. #15
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    Re: Room Temperature Biodiesel process

    Cement is partly calcium oxide . One molecule of water adds to one molecule of calcium oxide to make calcium hydroxide . CaO + H2O ------> Ca(OH)2 . So some water is removed from the reaction in making methoxide . Methanol + KOH -------> CH3O- + H2O . Methanol plus potassium or sodium hydroxide yields methoxide plus water . But H2O + CH3O- -----> CH3OH + OH- water plus methoxide yields methanol plus hydroxide ion . It's an equilibrium . Some methoxide is present in a percentage . By removing water availability for the reverse reaction that makes methoxide into methanol the concentration of methoxide should increase . So CH3OH + KOH + CaO -----> CH3O- + Ca(OH)2 + K- methanol plus potassium hydroxide plus calcium oxide yields methoxide plus calcium hydroxide plus potassium ion in solution . But water has been made unavalable to decompose the methoxide ion into methanol and hydroxide ion (in solution). Increasing the concentration of methoxide ion should increase the reaction rate at room temperature or above . Making the methoxide solution takes extra time . I wouldn't use cement . I used technical grade calcium oxide . Disposing of used cement from this proceedure might be a problem .
    Last edited by WesleyB; 31st December 2020 at 10:47 PM.

  6. #16
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    Re: Room Temperature Biodiesel process

    G'day WesleyB,
    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyB View Post
    Cement is partly calcium oxide . One molecule of water adds to one molecule of calcium oxide to make calcium hydroxide . CaO + H2O ------> Ca(OH)2 . So some water is removed from the reaction in making methoxide .
    According to the MSDS for portland cement < 90% is portland cement clinker, 3 - 8% is gypsum, 0 – 5% is limestone, 0 – 5% is GRANULATED BLAST FURNACE SLAG and a trace of CHROMIUM (VI) HEXAVALENT.
    Cement clinker which is typically 95%- 97% of Cement powder has a calcium oxide content between 0% and 1%.
    In reality there is very little or no Calcium oxide in portland cement

  7. #17
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    Re: Room Temperature Biodiesel process

    I looked in a Condensed Chemical Dictionary giving , Portland Cement - A type of hydraulic cement in the form of finely divided grey powder composed of lime , alumina , silica and iron oxide as tetracalcium aluminoferrate ... I found a internet reference to cement saying lime is about 57% of cement . I worked in a cement factory once , stacking warm bags of cement emerging from a furnace on a conveyor belt . The ground material is passed through a natural gas flame making lime from lime stone . I used technical grade calcium oxide in making the methoxide solution before making room temperature biodiesel , I didn't use cement . Lime is calcium oxide . I believe using cement was suggested by Dr. Mark Imisides .

  8. #18
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    Re: Room Temperature Biodiesel process

    G'day WesleyB,
    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyB View Post
    I found a internet reference to cement saying lime is about 57% of cement
    Please provide a url to the website that said lime is about 57% of cement.
    This MSDS http://www.adelaidebrighton.com.au/a...CEMENT_SDS.pdf1 for Portland Cement gives the ingredients as:
    PORTLAND CEMENT CLINKER < 90% 65997-15-1
    *GYPSUM CaSO4 2H2O 3 - 8% 10101-41-4
    *LIMESTONE CaCO3 0 – 5% 1317-65-3
    *GRANULATED BLAST FURNACE SLAG 0 – 5% 65996-69-2
    CHROMIUM (VI) HEXAVALENT Cr6+ Trace 18540-29-9
    *NOTE: Ingredient may contain crystalline silica (CAS No. 14808-60-7).

    This MSDS for Portland Cement Clinker https://www.holcim.bg/sites/bulgaria...clinker_en.pdf
    Tricalcium silicate CaO.SiO2 Typical concentration 63% Range from 0% – 85%
    Dicalcium silicate 2CaO.SiO2 Typical Concentration 15% Range from 0% - 85%
    Tetracalcium aluminoferrite 4CaO.Al2O3.Fe2O3 Typical concentration 10% Range from 0% – 30%
    Tricalcium aluminate 3CaO.Al2O3 Typical Concentration 10% Range from 0% – 20%
    Calcium oxide (free lime) CaO Typical concentration 1% Range from 0% - 10%

    I think I will stand with my original observation, there is not much if any Calcium Oxide in Cement


    I used technical grade calcium oxide in making the methoxide solution before making room temperature biodiesel
    The procedure being discussed calls for Cement not technical grade calcium oxide They are not the same thing.
    As I recall you also made room temperature biodiesel just using the normal procedure with no magical ingredients.
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 4th January 2021 at 03:41 PM.

  9. #19
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    Re: Room Temperature Biodiesel process

    I don't know what a URL is . I used the yahoo.com search engine with words cement composition . Then scrolled down to see a listing showing cement is 57% calcium oxide (lime) . Yes I did make biodiesel at room temperature using potassium hydroxide only to make the methoxide solution , at room temperature . I don't remember how long I stirred it . I've got several lab notebooks , I usually write what I do in experiments . If the proceedure uses cement then using technical grade calcium oxide and caustic is novel , a possible improvement for industrial scale biodiesel production . When I made biodiesel at room temperature using calcium oxide and potassium hydroxide to make the methoxide/methanol solution , as I mixed the oil and methoxide solution there was a quick color change . There's no magic involved . It's plain chemistry .

  10. #20
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    Re: Room Temperature Biodiesel process

    G'day WesleyB;
    Quote Originally Posted by WesleyB View Post
    I don't know what a URL is .
    "WHAT IS A URL AND WHERE IS IT LOCATED
    A uniform resource locator (URL) is basically what you would call the website address. It's a text string that refers the user to a location of a web page or another resource (such as a program or a graphic document). Surfing the web, you can always see the URL of the currently opened page in the browser's address bar."
    This is the URL for the page I coppied this information, just click on the URL: https://www.bitdegree.org/learn/unif...source-locator



    I used the yahoo.com search engine with words cement composition . Then scrolled down to see a listing showing cement is 57% calcium oxide (lime) .
    While it is true that Calcium oxide is a large percent of the ingredients for producing cement, the resulting cement produced contains virtually no Calcium oxide.
    As an example, roughly 80% of what goes into a biodiesel reactor is triglycerides. If all goes well, the resulting finished biodiesel produced will contain well under 1% triglycerides.
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 6th January 2021 at 02:15 AM.

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