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Thread: Heated Filtering Vs Cold Filtering before filling fuel tank

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Darwin
    Posts
    34

    Re: Do we really need to heat WVO?

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie1kanobie View Post
    i have read and re read many times, the posts on heating WCO, whether it be hot or cold filtered. my preference is to Cold filter, this way i know the fats and gritty bits stay in the first bag, or in the first drum. the end result being really good oil.
    Hi Hobie and everyone else.
    I'm trying to make up my mind about filtering temp.
    I'd always suspected (more a gut feeling than anything concrete I'd read) that higher filtering temps may let more (HMP?) fats through the filter and therefore into the tank.

    My situation is a bit different than everyone else's; I have a constant high ambient temp here in Darwin (usually 30+C in the daytime, when I'll be doing my (pre-tank) filtering.

    So should I possibly be thinking about cooling my oil?

    If you think about it, this is perhaps as valid a question as someone further south asking if it is Ok to heat it before putting it through the filter.

    I'm talking about pre-car filtering here.
    The question of whether it's a good thing that hot HMP fats will make it through your in-car filter and end up getting burnt is one I'll ask later.
    (I do understand that this is likely better than constantly clogging your filter, but I'm referring to any negative in-chamber effects)

    I'll restrict my question to the out-of-car filtering temps for now though.

    Thanks,

    Dave

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,372

    Re: Do we really need to heat WVO?

    Dave,
    Your question in the other thread raises questions which may justify their own thread.
    I have copied it to here, so that the cold Vs hot filtering can be discussed again, baed on your climatic conditions.

    So, is it worth chilling the used oil?

    My opinion is that it is not worth it. The HMP (High Melting Point) oils will only be a problem if you are heating the oil before filtering and they form after cooling to ambient.
    Cold filtering (at ambient temperatures) in Summer and storing that oil until winter does allow HMP oils to solidify in the fuel container. I have no problem seeing the HMP oils when soildified and do not add that part of the oil to my fuel tank.
    The HMP oils will melt again if this part of the oil is stored until Summer.



    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Darwin
    Posts
    34

    Re: Heated Filtering Vs Cold Filtering before filling fuel tank

    There's not really a Summer/Winter divide up here anyway - you are talking about the difference between 28C (Dry season) and 34C (Buildup/Wet season), generally.

    One thing I should have mentioned (which I think you did refer to in another reply) is that I will be travelling south (very south, in fact). So the ambient temp will not always be as nice as here.

    So I guess the question is - other than filter plugging, is there anything wrong with these fats; say as far as IP/injectors/comb chamber go?

    If everything is heated to 70-80C, does the relative makeup of the oil then become academic?

    Dave

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Lake Macquarie (just south of Newcastle) NSW
    Posts
    1,363

    Re: Heated Filtering Vs Cold Filtering before filling fuel tank

    Quote Originally Posted by gilligan View Post
    So I guess the question is - other than filter plugging, is there anything wrong with these fats; say as far as IP/injectors/comb chamber go?

    If everything is heated to 70-80C, does the relative makeup of the oil then become academic?

    Dave
    Simply - yes. Some run completely on HMP fats - heating the fuel tank.
    That said, oil that is cold filtered at 30oC may go solid in the fuel tank in Tas.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Darwin
    Posts
    34

    Re: Heated Filtering Vs Cold Filtering before filling fuel tank

    My plan for starters is to run a two-tank system, but to use the small (under-bonnet) tank for oil only and to use my long-range 120 litre tank for diesel.

    Reasons being:

    -If it all goes t*ts-up, I can revert to my stock fuel system quite easily
    (Bearing in mind I am going to be doing 5000 kms plus, with some reasonably remote legs involved, I'd rather play it safe.)

    -I don't have time to setup a heater for my large tank (and lines too perhaps)

    -I'm of the opinion that the small tank will get a decent amount of heat from the engine bay (I still plan on using an FPHE, but I think I can do without actual tank heating with this configuration)

    -Any setup/testing/air/leak related issues have got to be easier to troubleshoot over the short fuel line run involved under the bonnet rather than the whole length of the vehicle.

    Does this sound reasonable?

    I could also try and filter at a colder ambient to pre-emptively remove any HMP fats in advance of using it further south, but the above setup _should_ mean I don't have to go that far, right?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,372

    Re: Heated Filtering Vs Cold Filtering before filling fuel tank

    I suppose that it depends on how much of your trip you plan to drive on vegetable oil. If you only hav a smallish tank under the bonnet, you could have a very limited range on veggie.

    Are you able to utilise a second fuel tank in the vehicle for veggie, and have it pumped into the small tank at a rate, slightly more than the usage rate? The excess could flow back to the larger tank, or the pump could be switched by a level switch, to prevent overflow.

    I have used a 12V lamp as a fuel heater in some 25 litre drums I was using as jerry cans for my veggie. I kept the HMP oils liquid in the back of my Mazda Capella on the first trip we did on veggie, way back in September 2000.

    Just some thoughts which may be of use to you.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,243

    Re: Heated Filtering Vs Cold Filtering before filling fuel tank

    Quote Originally Posted by gilligan View Post
    My plan for starters is to run a two-tank system, but to use the small (under-bonnet) tank for oil only and to use my long-range 120 litre tank for diesel.
    ?
    My Mk 1 version was a small tank under the bonnet. While it was treated as a bit of a novelty and learning experience back then. However having to stop twice to refuel during a 100k trip to the Barossa Valley was bit of a pain. Is hard on the bonnet catch too.
    Johnnojack
    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 200000km on WVO,(2020) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids FPHE, heated filter fuel line and tank pickup for thicker oil. Mk. 9 version now and no changes planned as trouble free.
    Mercedes W201 190D 1986 model: 2 tank system, bigger fuel line from tank, no heat exchanger, electric pump for diesel 22000km so far

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Darwin
    Posts
    34

    Re: Heated Filtering Vs Cold Filtering before filling fuel tank

    I'm hoping to squeeze 20 or 25 litres in there - and I'm assuming that will get me somewhere over 150kms, but I don't have any reliable consumption figures yet.

    My old clapped out (6 cracked pots) SD33T used to do 1000kms from 120 litres, but I have no idea what a reasonable ratio is to use when assuming consumption on oil.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,372

    Re: Heated Filtering Vs Cold Filtering before filling fuel tank

    I work on using 10% extra, which allows me a good margin for error.

    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    936

    Re: Heated Filtering Vs Cold Filtering before filling fuel tank

    Quote Originally Posted by gilligan View Post
    My plan for starters is to run a two-tank system, but to use the small (under-bonnet) tank for oil only and to use my long-range 120 litre tank for diesel.

    I've got a 10 litre tank of diesel under the bonnet and 160 litres in on board tanks. When I travel I can carry 580 litres in plastic drums in my trailer, giving me a 5000km range.

    Be brave young man!!
    Toyota Landcruiser 1988 HJ61 Manual Wagon
    12H-T turbo Direct Injection.
    Twin Tank setup runs on 100% WVO after warm up. 30 plate FPHE with 80C output, 12mm fuel lines
    Start up and shut down electric fuel pump feeds IP direct.
    Front 4WDSytstems Lokka, Rear ARB airlokka for quick escapes up sandhills. Performance GTurbo with 600mm FMIC gives 450nm @ 1700rpm at 20psi boost.

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