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Thread: Strange Samples

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Hobart
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    5

    Strange Samples

    hey all,

    just started getting set up to make bio with a mate, and to start with we did a few small sample batches, to sort out the amount of lye needed etc.

    well, MOST of the samples did what we expected, to varying degrees. but one did something a lil strange in that it just gelled up with a tiny amount of bio surrounding it (see first pic)

    it has us stumped as its right in the middle in terms of the molarity of the lye mix. if we had too little or too much it would make a lil more sense, but its smack bang in the middle (see 2nd pic)

    can anyone shed some light?


    note the distinct gelling (this is about a week of settling)


    from left to right we have weakest to strongest lye solution. the one in question is right in the middle.



    p.s. its been quite some time since this was done and the sample has started to break down but is still mostly gell

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Canberra, ACT, Australia
    Posts
    333

    Re: Strange Samples

    Did you do a titration and if so what did you come up with? KOH or NaOH? What base did you start with? Is the gelled one the correct lyre based on titration and base used?

    Sorry, need more info.
    Maverick
    Canberra

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Fraser Coast - Queensland
    Posts
    57

    Re: Strange Samples

    Is each jar made with the same oil or differnt samples? The only time I had anything that looked like that was after making a batch on used Palm Oil in the winter when the temp got down to about 8 degrees C. When I blended the Palm Oil with other oil I had it seemed fine. But that might not be the case with your samples. Also, did you heat and mix the oil thoroughly before titrating? Apart from that I'm stumped given that the other samples seem fine.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,348

    Re: Strange Samples

    Could there have been some water in the bottle when the oil was added, causing soap production?

    Happy New Year,

    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Sunshine Coast, QLD
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    708

    Re: Strange Samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    Could there have been some water in the bottle when the oil was added, causing soap production?

    Happy New Year,

    Tony

    That has been my experience and small amounts of bio will slowly be released from the soap.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Hobart
    Posts
    5

    Re: Strange Samples

    Quote Originally Posted by joe View Post
    That has been my experience and small amounts of bio will slowly be released from the soap.

    that may well be the case then, because its definatly starting to release bio. the oil we used was just blended vegie oil bought from the supermarket so in theory that should be fine. and the same oil was used for each one.

    we used NaOH, and we did titrate it, but i cant remember what we came up with...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Canberra, ACT, Australia
    Posts
    333

    Re: Strange Samples

    What was your goal when you set out to do this, just curious why you were experimenting with different lyre values around the titration + base.
    Maverick
    Canberra

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    261

    Re: Strange Samples

    Gday
    If you bought the oil at the supermarket there should'nt be any water in it, looks like you added to much lye and its gelled
    thanks caveman
    Last edited by Captain_caveman; 6th January 2009 at 01:07 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,348

    Re: Strange Samples

    Gday
    If you bought the oil at the supermarket there should'nt be any water it, looks like you added to much lye and its gelled
    thanks caveman
    My point was that (if the bottles had been washed) there may have been some water remaining only in the jar for this sample, not present in other sample jars.
    As the oil was from the same source, I do not see any simple explanations other than water or inadvertant excess of Caustic.
    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Hobart
    Posts
    5

    Re: Strange Samples

    doubtfull it was to much lye, as the one at the far right had a stupid amount in it (just dumped in a shitload to see what would happen) and that one didnt gel up at all.

    maverick, the goal was just to see if there is any noticable differance from having to much or to little lye mixture. give us an idea for what to look out for once getting larger scale. figure its better to cock up 250ml than 250l. didnt really want a barrel full of the sample in question

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