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Thread: Hydrogen generator trial results

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    Ryde
    Posts
    99

    Hydrogen generator trial results

    Hello all!

    I had a brilliant time today at the biodiesel barbecue today! I thoroughly enjoyed meeting all who attended - good to finally put faces to the names! Thank you again Robert (and thanks to others who helped!) for organising such a great day.

    I thought I'd post my results after the first trial of my hydrogen generator. It's just a simple little hydrogen generator I built out of readily available materials. The main reaction chamber is just a cookie jar, and the smaller "scrubber" chamber is just a smaller cookie jar. It generates "Brown's gas" (which is just hydrogen and oxygen gas) and seems to have worked quite well.

    When I first built it I was not expecting it to have a significant impact. However, after trialling it on my little Peugeot, the results have been great! I have absolutely no idea how it works (that is, how the hydrogen and oxygen work on combustion) but it seems to have made quite a difference.

    I've been keeping logs of the economy I've been getting out of the Peugeot - see the attached picture of my log sheet. The last entry made was using hydrogen. As you can see, I've got a good increase in economy! The Peugeot has a 60 litre fuel tank, so 1022km using 60 litres of biodiesel is 5.87 litres used per 100km, or 48.14 miles per gallon. This was combined driving, as well as using the air-conditioner and occasionally giving it a bootfull.Attachment 388

    Like I said earlier, I have absolutely no idea how it works, so I'm not able to elaborate further on the process. If anyone out there knows how it works I'd love to know.

    I've noticed the Peugeot has (or seems to have) a slight increase in torque, and the idle speed of the engine has gone up ever so slightly. Apart from this I've not known any other difference, apart from the increase in economy.

    The hydrogen generator sits in the boot of the Peugeot, and doesn't take up a great deal of room. I've posted a picture of the family chihuahua sitting next to it to give an idea of scale.Attachment 387

    As you can see, the generator runs off a 12 volt battery. It draws about 5 amps, and this can be adjusted by the amount of electrolyte added to the water in the chamber. The electrolyte I'm using is something we're all familiar with - NaOH (sodium hydroxide).

    More results to come soon!

  2. #2
    David Guest

    Re: Hydrogen generator trial results

    Hey Tom,

    I think you had quite a few people enthralled with your... device?... especially in how well made and simple it was. You will be amused to know I came home today and rigged up something in an old coffee jar.

    I didn't enclose the llid but the loud pops of the Hydrogen when I put a flame in the neck of the jar certainly let me know that even the most crudely made devise does make gas. Of course if 12 volts works, 24 has to work better right? You bet it does! The amperage seemed to shoot up exponentially though and I would guess buy the sudden heat build up in the not too light cables I was using, the draw was probably around 20-30 amps. The heat build up in the jar was sufficent to make me wonder if this process couldn't also be put to use as some sort of fuel heater by using an exchanger of some sort.

    From talking to some others that were interested in your devise, I think it is one of these thngs that some of us will have to make for ourselves to believe it really works. This is certainly no comment on your own credibility as you impressed everyone I think, but rather one of those things that seems so simple it is just difficult to believe how effective it can be.

    I would like to find some decent jars to rig something airtight up myself and give it a go on the Bio- Gen My idea would be to put a set load on it and then measure fuel consumption over a given time ( or vice versa) both with and without the gas generator.

    I think you mentioned that you noticed something like a 30% improvement in your consumption, did I hear this correctly? Certainly if this is the result you have got, it should be easy for me to see the differences in an unscientific and imperfect test.

    Knowing nothing about these things ( except I could probably boil water with them) so is there any guide as to what size devise to make in relation to your engine size for best effect? Also, is there a reccomended low and high electrolyte level per litre of water?

    If there are any other fundamental principals of this technology you could fill me in on, I'd be keen to learn what I can to make my tests as valid as possible.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    524

    Re: Hydrogen generator trial results

    Yes, please keep us advised. You mentioned at the picnic that you charged the battery overnight on the mains at home, rather than run it off the alternator. How much does the battery discharge during a day of driving? For that matter, how many hours of driving?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Ryde
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    99

    Re: Hydrogen generator trial results

    Hi guys!

    David - that's cool that you built a hydrogen generator! It's amazing how simple it is, isn't it? Hydrogen by itself is flammable, but when mixed with air it becomes very explosive. I've had two hydrogen fires - one on purpose and one accidental. It's amazing what you can learn both at college and in the garage!

    I like your idea of using the generator as a fuel heater - I'd not thought of this! The reaction will generate quite a bit of heat, so it might be ideal to warm diesel, biodiesel, SVO or WVO.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there's a given ratio of the voltage used and the gas output. Everything I've studied in electrochemistry suggests that there's almost always a relationship with things like this.

    Yep, you heard right indeed! I'm getting roughly a 30% increase in economy. My normal average consumption is just under 800km, so given that I got a further 222 km, this is about right. Mind you, I could have gotten more - I used the air-conditioner and did some city running too. Oh, and I also put my foot down a few times to climb hills and generally show off.

    I used about a tablespoon of NaOH in approximately 1 litre of water to make up the solution that goes in the reaction chamber. Later on I'll try to do an assessment of how much NaOH to use to get a given volume of gas.

    Generally, I use the amount of amps being drawn as a guide to gas output. To do this, I fill the reaction chamber with just water, and then turn the generator on. I use an ammeter in series with the battery, and with just water in the chamber it draws nothing, or virtually nothing. I then make up a solution (about 200ml) of water and two tablespoons of NaOH. Making sure that the NaOH is thoroughly dissolved, I pour small amounts of the saturated solution into the reactor until the ammeter draws 5 amps. If I wanted to draw more amperage, I'd simply add more saturated NaOH solution. Simple! As you already see, you don't need much NaOH at all. A few grams will do the trick!

    Terry - The battery that I use to power the generator is an Iveco truck battery, rated at 110 ampere hours. So, if I'm only drawing 5 amps out of it, it should be able to sustain this for many hours! Mind you, I don't think the battery is in good condition as I have to re-charge it often. I've yet to rig up a permanent ammeter to see the conditions that it runs under when in use. As soon as I have some more data I'll post it here.

    Let me know how your own experiments work guys! I'd love to see others make their own devices and hopefully get the sort of gains I've been experiencing!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    804

    Re: Hydrogen generator trial results

    For those of us who weren't there today, can somebody please explain what this hydrogen generator does and how it works?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    16

    Re: Hydrogen generator trial results

    I think this is what he is using. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_...ride_fuel_cell

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Kojounp W.A.
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    48

    Re: Hydrogen generator trial results

    Hi all,
    This is my first post, have been reading and absorbing a lot of the information in the forum durying the past couple of weeks, and I must say there is some great stuff hapenning out there. Now I thought that I would contribute some information that I have regarding Hydrogen. Many years ago when I was a wee lad, I did a a mechanical course at the local Techinal college. During that course one of my lectures told me about water injection straight into the intake manifold by means of a micro spray or a drip feed. The water was heated by the engine bay heat so it would atomise better. The result that the water molecuel in the superheated combustion chamber seperated to produce hydrogen and oxygen, hence giving a hotter burn to the combustion of the fuel being used. Hence more power and economy. It works well, the only problem is determining the right amount of water feed into the intake manofold to determin the best outcome without over doing it and creating damage to the cylinder walls from to much water not combusted or to much heat generated from the improved combustion. This lecturer found this out by seizing the aluminuim piston in his BSA motorbike whilst doing a cool 100mph (well that was the way he told it)
    I know that there has been development of this method over the years perhaps others with more knowledge can expand on this idea a little.

    I have also found a site that may be of interest to those wanting to build a hydrogen generator. (unfortunately it will cost a few $ to find out) anyhow here it is. www.knowledgepublications.com.

    Just out of interest Emporator how is yours constructed and how does it feed the gas into the engine.

    Cheers
    Sandman

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Ryde
    Posts
    99

    Re: Hydrogen generator trial results

    Hello nic0!

    I had a look at the link you posted, but it's totally different to the generator I've built. Still, it's interesting reading!

    Here's a link with the kind of system I've built - http://www.okhydrogen.com/hydro-gen.html

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    538

    Re: Hydrogen generator trial results

    I'm also very interested in this generator and would like to know how to connect it up to a diesel engine. I've got 6 diesel engines of various sizes and would love to do some tests with different ones, especially my 671 GM 2 stroke that drives my boat.

    At the moment I'm a long way from home and won't get back until mid November, hopefully others will have made some good observations by then. The quick read I made on browns gas, some make pretty spectacular claims, flux less welding, cut any metal, can make glass with its temperatures, yet doesn't burn you. Can you compress and bottle it for cooking, so when your camping you can heat water, cook your food and run the car. One site said you get 1800 lt of browns gas from a litre of water, it would be interesting to see how much you use in an engine. You could run a home heating/hot water system from the heat of the generator. Maybe you could run a small steam turbine with it and generate electricity, the mind boggles.

    Sounds like I could run the house with it and recharge with solar and wind. What about a combination of ethanol and browns gas for petrol engines, although I'd stand well back when you fired it up. I look forward to hearing more, if it sounds good I may make one myself and test it whilst we travel and see how it goes in N.T. conditions. I agree with David regarding sealing it to avoid leaks, any one for browns gas coffee.

    This site is interesting

    http://www.nottaughtinschools.com/Yu...Interview.html

  10. #10
    leongster Guest

    Re: Hydrogen generator trial results

    Quote Originally Posted by David

    Knowing nothing about these things ( except I could probably boil water with them) so is there any guide as to what size devise to make in relation to your engine size for best effect? Also, is there a reccomended low and high electrolyte level per litre of water?

    If there are any other fundamental principals of this technology you could fill me in on, I'd be keen to learn what I can to make my tests as valid as possible.
    Got a couple figures off in the initial post, so I've updated the nos here:

    Potassium Hydroxide (KOH) is a good electrolyte. Start with 3% by total volume.

    Try to use distilled water.

    You don't really need high voltage as the excess is being converted to heat.

    1.24-1.9 volts at 25 degrees celcius will begin the process of electrolysis. If the voltage goes any higher you're just producing heat. The aim is to produce hydrogen-on-demand.


    Scaling: A 1-litre cell running 12 volts with straight plumbing into the air intake will last you approximately 70,000 meters on a 1600cc gasoline car with around 30% improvements in FE. (Results with diesel unknown.) This is very short range due to the water boiling off from the excess heat.

    The brown scum produced by the cell contains chromium, a heavy metal - dispose with care.

    Use 316 stainless where possible to prevent corrosion. Avoid glass containers, unless you separate and vent the hydrogen and oxygen safely.

    An in-line water filter can be used for basic cell building - use the ones with the clear polycarbonate bowls.

    Keep the gas chamber portion of the container small. Less gas = smaller explosion (if accident happens.)

    Install a check valve where possible on the gas line to prevent backflash.

    Hint: Solar arrays, or photovoltaic cells are good source of power.




    Regards


    Leongster
    Last edited by leongster; 28th September 2006 at 08:08 PM.

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