New forum for Ethanol

[Matt Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Matt]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

Try slaked lime or rock salt to make anhydrous ethanol, only issue is as soon as you make it it will start absorbing water to for the azeotrope. You can denature it with petrol I believe to try and stop this.

Matt

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

Hello Troy

The yeast are actually bacteria,...

That is certainly not an accurate statement.
"Unlike bacteria, which multiply by binary fission, yeasts reproduce by a method called budding. A small knob or bud forms on the parent cell, grows and finally separates to become a new yeast dell. Although this is the most common method of reproduction, yeasts also multiply by the formation of spores.

Yeast are eukaryotes... they are classified as fungi.Yeast are different from bacteria in that they have a different achitechture than plants or bacteria. They have
i.) a nuclear membrane that houses their DNA (and some RNA),
ii.) multiple chromosomes 10-20), whereas bacteria have one or two, and
iii.) very different cell wall structures than bacteria and plants.

[TroyH Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close TroyH]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

lol. forgive me for my slip. It's been a few years since I studied Brewing and Winemaking.

My biochemistry lecturer would shoot me for that. It's about the first thing they taught us. lol I should have said that they were "organisms capable of reproduction". The amount of live yeast you add can influence the fermentation, but it's not a simple matter of more is better.

With your definition, a still does not seperate ethanol from water either, it just Concentrates the ethanol in the water.

You didn't really read what I said, did you :

Perhaps not strictly correct (but mostly because you cant really easily do it with distillation either),

You will get far closer to "seperation" with distillation than with freezing.
Even 30% ethanol isn't particularly useful. You will still need to distill it. I dont feel freezing is of particular use.

The last I knew a few years ago, you can only own a still of 5 litres pot capacity without registering your still with the government and It is never legal to distill ethanol.

I never said distillation was legal, merely that it was the best method for yielding a solution higher in ethanol that from fermentation. It's also not legal to make biodiesel without an excise permit...



In regards to drying, the paper "Dessicant Efficiency in Solvent and Reagent Drying" (Journal of Organic Chemistry, 1983) it was stated that CaO gave 'dried' samples that were completely unnacceptable, often containing up to 5000 ppm water. Alternatively, 3A molecular sieve beads, gave 99ppm. Since Ca(OH)2 (slaked lime) is actually hydrated CaO, I dont think I would use it to dry ethanol.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

Hello Troy

lol. forgive me for my slip.

Is a slip the same thing as a mistake?

It's been a few years since I studied Brewing and Winemaking.
My biochemistry lecturer would shoot me for that. It's about the first thing they taught us.

Really? is the fact that yeast is not a bacteria that important?

You didn't really read what I said, did you : You will get far closer to "seperation" with distillation than with freezing.

You really did not read the question, did you? At least you did not answer it.
Maxwell Asked:
"Has anyone tried freezing rather than distilling?
What percentage would you get?"

Even 30% ethanol isn't particularly useful. You will still need to distill it. I dont feel freezing is of particular use.

The question was not whether you felt the procedure was of use, The question was what would happen. A bit of scientific inetrest. You did not answer the question.

I never said distillation was legal, merely that it was the best method for yielding a solution higher in ethanol that from fermentation.

Did the people you were telling to go to a home brew shop to look at stills know it was illegal to distill ethanol?

It's also not legal to make biodiesel without an excise permit...

I am not sure that is totally accurate.

[TroyH Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close TroyH]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

The question i felt was in reference to freezing IN COMPARISON to distillation. As in, could it be used as an alternative. It is not going to be of any use, compared to distillation. Also unlikely to be more energy efficient.

Hi All!
Just a thought!
Has anyone tried freezing rather than distilling?
What percentage would you get?
Would it be more energy efficient?
Cheers
Maxwell

Yes, slip is the same as mistake. I did not think carefully before posting, or check to make sure my memory wasn't failing me.
The lecturer did seem to be quite adamant about it. Seems to be a pet peeve.


I'm sure a home brew shop would be obliged to inform you it is illegal to use your still for the purpose of purification of ethanol in Australia. Failing that, it is mentioned elsewhere on this forum, and quite possibly in this very thread.

I am not sure that is totally accurate.

The excise document from the ATO seems to agree with me. Of course, this only applies to Australia, and non-educational institutions.

What are my excise obligations?
Where you manufacture biodiesel or blend biodiesel with diesel
you must hold an excise manufacturer licence. in relation to
biodiesel/diesel blends, this requirement extends to blending
activities where either or both fuels have already been duty paid.
a manufacturer licence

[Gil Hardwick Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Gil Hardwick]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

To answer Peter Jack,

I live here in Margaret River, WA, though I was born in Griffith NSW and had a lot of contact with the place most of my early adult life.

Over here most of the wines yield about 12-13% ethanol, which compares extremely well with sugar.

There is a reason the crop is called the Noble Grape. Grape wine pretty well makes itself, especially compared with mead for example which takes a very great deal of skill and care. Honey is inherently toxic to yeast, where grape juice is next to paradise for the wee critters.

If you wanted to use grapes for methanol production you could dispense with wine varieties altogether. You do need all the aromatics and fruits the wine buff craves.

A high sugar yield in a warm dry area, using very high alcohol tolerant yeasts, and you could go a constant fermentation process like commercial beer.

I think that would achieve excellent economies.

Gil

[wheeloftime Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close wheeloftime]

Re: New forum for Ethanol

okay,
thanks for the help so far. now i have a small amount of ethanol. burns beautiful clear blue flame. I still doesnt burn all of it. there is still a water content that doesnt burn. which i knew at the beginning. but here come some more questions.


I have read in my research that you can not use aluminum to make your alcohol. It creates poison. Does that count for ethanol too? I am not concerned about drinking it so will the poison it creates affect motor function?

what is the poison making alcohol in aluminum creates?

thats it for now though it smell like 2 day old bread dough uncooked i use 3 packes of regular bakers yeast per gallon of sugar mash. seems to ferment just fine. smells nasty but burns nice.