Water/alcohol injection and diesel engines

[Guest Close David]

Re: Water/alcohol injection and diesel engines

HeyTom!

Great to hear you have the Pug back on the road. I was only wondering the other night if you had it mobile again so great to hear its finaly running and you can try all these things you have had so long to think about!

How is your water system triggered? Boost pressure?
If this is the case you may want to consider ajusting the pressure at which the water kicks in. I think you only really need it at the higher end of the power band and it probably isn't really needed just cruising along where you are only at part throttle anyway.

I took Helga up the coast last weekend to shoot a job I had up there and I was totally amazed at the way she went. I put some 40-50% meth mix in her and I noticed she was rattling a bit with it particularly when I had my foot flat but she was pulling in the gears rather than revving out. I did pull her back a cog on one hill as I slowed to 85 and wanted to pass a truck and As I did this and looked in the rear view mirror, I noticed a very impressive Puff of black smoke as she pulled away and the rattling stopped ( or I just couldn't hear it) at the higher revs. In my tests before, she didn't make a sound till I put 75% meth in her so something is allowing her to burn more fuel or the fuel she has more efficently now.

In the 80Km haul out of sydney up the expressway to Gosford, I only used about 1.5L of water which I was surprised at given that any 300D owner will tell you that the throttle in one of these could simply be replaced by an on/off switch and that I was draging a ton of gear with me which not only filled the boot, but the back and front passengers seat as well.

I know the water injection flows about 300cc water a minute so when you work out the water mix used, that was a full 5 minutes of wide open throttle during a little over an hours run, at least half of which was in heavy traffic.

I am totally and utterly convinced the water has done something significant in Helga. The only thing I have done to her mechanically was ajust the valves which didn't make any noticable difference performance wise but it is a totally different car to what it was 6 months ago.

I normally run straight water and although some time back I tried turning the water off and on mid run and couldn't tell any difference, I can tell without a doubt now when the water has run out. She just loses the edge on her pep.

It would be good if you get the chance to do a timing run with and without the water to see if you too experience a performance difference as I did as posted earlier in this thread.

I look forward to hearing how you go with this and all the other interesting automotive things you come up with.

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: Water/alcohol injection and diesel engines

I have also had success with water / methanol injection. I would like to use ethanol, but that is a bit beyond my abilities yet.
Last Sunday, I went to collect some oil, and took along some high melting point filtrate to give to a friend who makes biodiesel. I didn't get to give hime the oil, so was bring it home again, along with the 5, 60 litre drums from the F&C shop.

Now the road to my place has a 2 km slope up the Darling Ranges behind Perth, and then another 500m before I hit my driveway. The speed limit is 70 km, and then increases to 80Km/h about half way up the slope.

Normally, without the injection, I would be just able to maintain the speed limit on my way home, without the trailer, in 4th gear. On Sunday evening, I had a heavy load on the trailer and still managed to hit 80 Km/h soon after the speed limit change, by using 3rd gear, but held that speed up the rest of the slope in 4th gear.

Without the trailer I can easily exceed the speed limit on the slope, without resorting the 3rd gear.

Regards,
Tony
ps. Emporator, Is butanol soluble in water?

[TroyH Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close TroyH]

Re: Water/alcohol injection and diesel engines

Tony, what is limiting your use of ethanol? Making it yourself?

Why not just buy methylated spirits?
You are diluting it with water anyway, so unless the denaturant is horribly corrosive or toxic, it should work fine.

Or are there other issues?

[Emporator Member Find all posts View Profile Close Emporator]

Re: Water/alcohol injection and diesel engines

Hello gents!

David,

I'm absolutely chuffed to have my Peugeot back on the road! It's going beautifully - definitely worth the wait.

The system is triggered by boost pressure, and can be adjusted to whatever setting you feel is best. I had it set to come on at the slightest hint of boost, but have adjusted it to activate at a higher boost pressure.

I've tried both straight water and a water/methanol/ethanol mix. With the mixture it pulls like a freight train! On water alone it still pulls a little better but not as much.

The most satisfying part thus far has been using a mixture of water/methanol/ethanol of which I made my own ethanol! I admit it would easier to buy methylated spirits, but where would the fun be in that?

I'd be keen to catch up with you David at some time to talk further and kick a few tyres!

Tony,

Excellent to hear you too have had success with water injection. I like to hear of your results if you try ethanol. As TroyH says, you can just use methylated spirits if you don't make your own ethanol.

As I understand it, butanol and water are not very miscible, but butanol will completely mix with ethanol. I was going to do a few experiments with a mixture of water/ethanol/butanol. I'd also like to give isopropyl alcohol and water a shot.

More results to come!

[PeterAC Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PeterAC]

Re: Water/alcohol injection and diesel engines

I was talking to an ex vietnam vet. We started the bio and veg oil talk. He then started talking about WW2 and how diesel was scarce and that they use to use gas and water injection to run vechicles when diesel couldn't be found. With more talk he told me he use to sell water injection kits in the 1970's in Sydney. Sounds like it's been around for quite a while flying under the radar just like bio and veg. He sold the kits to boost performance and keep the engine clean in those days.

Peter<><

[dust Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close dust]

Re: Water/alcohol injection and diesel engines

I think that the widespread usage of methanol is not necessarily because it’s the best, but because it is the most widely available. The generic winter blend of windshield washer fluid here in Japan is 40% methanol. Most stores in most areas will have a winter blend much cheaper than you could buy the ingredients separately, unless you already have a big purchase of methanol for making biodiesel. It’s also the easiest to tie into, i.e. your windshield wiper fluid tank. Drill a hole, put in a fitting, and you are ready to go. A lot of the big turbo diesel guys (Powerstroke, Cummins, and Duramax) are running quite a bit of it through their trucks, enough that some mount 8 gallon tanks in the back for decreasing EGTs while increasing fuel with their programmers. Not necessarily the same situation, but I think that it shows that it does help.

Propane, Nitrous, & Water Meth - Page 5 - Diesel Place