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Re: Hydrogen injection into petrol & diesel
Terry from Sydney...Obfuscation...hehe not for a minute, I think my post is very clear and when conceded it surpasses the number of words some may read in a week, it has the purpose of giving the reader an idea as to why a self generating Hydrogen dual fuel sytem cannot give any savings in fuel ECONOMY. However it may give some power increase at a cost, ( may be )
You say (twice) that this thing does no produce "a fuel for the engine". What do you mean? You do not beleive it produces Hydrogen or you do not beleive Hydrogn can be used as fuel?
To make Hydrogen is not rocket science and in fact I use to make Hydrogen in primary school with a 9 volt battery.
I have no doubt that this thing can actualy make Hydrogen unless it is a complete scam and when you pay you get a black box filled with plaster, but let's give it the benefit of the doubd and assume that the gadget actualy delivers H2 to your intake manifold.
My point and I thought it was rather simple, is that making H2 by splitting water by electrolisis when magnifically simple is energy negative, that is, it uses up more electric energy then the energy contained in the H2 produced.
If you add the inefficiency of the electricity generator and battery, in the order of 80%, the thermal efficiency of a diesel engine 30%, you can quickly see how producing say on million BTU in H2 will cost something like over 4 millions of BTU in diesel, and that disregarding the lossess of water electrolisis that I do not remember.
However.....The same can be said for a lot of the gimmics we buy every day for performance enhancement. 3" exaust pipe, Spoiler, low profile tyres, all cost a lot more than the alleged performance they deliver and you will never recover your money from fuel savings not if you drive like a grandmother on the way to church for the next 10 years.
I think that the idea of generating H2 on board to enhance combustion in a dual fuel set up has some merit, however to claim fuel savings is to engage in deception unless ..... (drum roll)..... the generation of H2 is made in a way that is energy neutral or at no energy cost at all, like for example if the electricity generted for the lisis comes from a generator activated by a turbo in the exhaust or, by a pair of pedals set up in the back seat actioned by your mother in law.....providing you don't have ot pay her food bill that is.
If you want to experiment with H2 generation, get yourself a pot of water, a battery with two wires one + one - and place two test tube over each electrode and you will achieve O2 in one tube and H2 in the other. Be carefull since H2 is explosive.
If you want to know a bit more about H2 production there is something going on low current electrolsis that seems to be much more efficient than the higher voltage
lisis http://guns.connect.fi/innoplaza/energy/story/Kanarev/
electrolysis/index.html
Originally posted by Terry Syd
You say (twice) that this thing does no produce "a fuel for the engine". What do you mean? You do not beleive it produces Hydrogen or you do not beleive Hydrogn can be used as fuel?
To make Hydrogen is not rocket science and in fact I use to make Hydrogen in primary school with a 9 volt battery.
I have no doubt that this thing can actualy make Hydrogen unless it is a complete scam and when you pay you get a black box filled with plaster, but let's give it the benefit of the doubd and assume that the gadget actualy delivers H2 to your intake manifold.
My point and I thought it was rather simple, is that making H2 by splitting water by electrolisis when magnifically simple is energy negative, that is, it uses up more electric energy then the energy contained in the H2 produced.
If you add the inefficiency of the electricity generator and battery, in the order of 80%, the thermal efficiency of a diesel engine 30%, you can quickly see how producing say on million BTU in H2 will cost something like over 4 millions of BTU in diesel, and that disregarding the lossess of water electrolisis that I do not remember.
However.....The same can be said for a lot of the gimmics we buy every day for performance enhancement. 3" exaust pipe, Spoiler, low profile tyres, all cost a lot more than the alleged performance they deliver and you will never recover your money from fuel savings not if you drive like a grandmother on the way to church for the next 10 years.
I think that the idea of generating H2 on board to enhance combustion in a dual fuel set up has some merit, however to claim fuel savings is to engage in deception unless ..... (drum roll)..... the generation of H2 is made in a way that is energy neutral or at no energy cost at all, like for example if the electricity generted for the lisis comes from a generator activated by a turbo in the exhaust or, by a pair of pedals set up in the back seat actioned by your mother in law.....providing you don't have ot pay her food bill that is.
If you want to experiment with H2 generation, get yourself a pot of water, a battery with two wires one + one - and place two test tube over each electrode and you will achieve O2 in one tube and H2 in the other. Be carefull since H2 is explosive.
If you want to know a bit more about H2 production there is something going on low current electrolsis that seems to be much more efficient than the higher voltage
lisis http://guns.connect.fi/innoplaza/energy/story/Kanarev/
electrolysis/index.html
The technology of using hydrogen as a combustion enhancement in internal combustion engines has been researched and proven for many years. The benefits are factual and well documented. Our own utilization of this technology. i.e. the CHEC HFI hydrogen injection system, has also been tested and proven both by institutions and in hundreds of practical applications in road vehicles.
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