The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

I see....there is scepticism and there is excessive scepticism ....interesting.

For here is the chief and most confounding objection to
excessive scepticism, that no durable good can ever result from it;
while it remains in its full force and vigour. We need only ask such a
sceptic, What his meaning is? And what he proposes by all these
curious researches? He is immediately at a loss, and knows not what to
answer. From "An essay Concerning Human Understanding (1748)
By David Hume





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[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

Excessive Scepticism

When does Scepticism become excessive?
When you point out that something that is an obvious scam is an obvious scam?

There are over a half dozen "Fuel Catalysers" listed above that all claim to do the same thing. Fortunatly for us, the thing these Catalysers "Fix" does not in fact occure in the real world. The Science is phony, the thing they claim to "Fix" does not even exist so it can not be fixed.
There is a Dyno test posted earlier in this thread that shows the Fitch Catalyser" does nothing.
Is it necessary to show that every item that claims to fix the same non-existant problem can not fix a problem that does not exist.

Excessive exasperation may be a better word.
You really do not believe there is anything to these crapola scam products do you? You are just winding me up aren't you?
Surely no one with a IQ reaching double digits can believe all that nonsence.

Tilly

[Guest Close leongster]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

If these things actually worked, car and truck manufacturers ( amoungst others) would just screw one into their vehicles at the factory and saved Millions in trying to develop more efficent, powerful and economical engines. They could use one old engine design and still meet all the relevant emissions and consumption regualtions with a part they could reverse engineer and no doubt produce in house for a fraction of what these things are being sold for now.

As the motor industry with their virtually unlimited resourses for testing and development have not fitted these devices as standard, I have to seriously wonder why that could be when they could benifit from them so much.

By the same reasoning, if these things work and the people producing them have all these tests saying how good they are, why haven't they taken them to the auto manufacturers and got contracts for millions of them rather than trying to sell them one at a time to the public?

My original post here got some people pretty wound up, so I thought I'd clarify my point here:

RE: why car makers don't put these things in their cars anyway: IMHO: If you sold something (like a car) and your market was the world, you'd have to draw the line somewhere I guess.

Car and truck makers can't control fuel quality, so they design and build according to known parameters, even if in reality those parameters are drastically different from country to country (or bowser to bowser).

Besides there is the issue of cost. And we know how most companies feel about that word don't we.

[Guest Close leongster]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

Excessive Scepticism

When does Scepticism become excessive?
When you point out that something that is an obvious scam is an obvious scam?

There are over a half dozen "Fuel Catalysers" listed above that all claim to do the same thing. Fortunatly for us, the thing these Catalysers "Fix" does not in fact occure in the real world. The Science is phony, the thing they claim to "Fix" does not even exist so it can not be fixed.
There is a Dyno test posted earlier in this thread that shows the Fitch Catalyser" does nothing.
Is it necessary to show that every item that claims to fix the same non-existant problem can not fix a problem that does not exist.

Excessive exasperation may be a better word.
You really do not believe there is anything to these crapola scam products do you? You are just winding me up aren't you?
Surely no one with a IQ reaching double digits can believe all that nonsence.

Tilly

IMHO, the science being used here isn't phony. It's just science on a different level.

The evidence to prove that fuel catalysers do have some effect on fuel is insurmountable. You just need to know where to look for it.

[chansen Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close chansen]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

IMHO, the science being used here isn't phony. It's just science on a different level.

The evidence to prove that fuel catalysers do have some effect on fuel is insurmountable. You just need to know where to look for it.

"science on a different level"?!? There is science, and there is not science. There is no "different level" of science, and if these devices can only be shown to work on a "different level", then they are still crap.

Tilly is right - either you are a dumbass, or you are in on this.

The "evidence" is not insurmountable - it's doctored and placed there by people looking to make a buck.

[Terry Syd Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Terry Syd]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

OK, back to the point in question - does this particular device work or not?

Whereas the Filtch device relied upon testimonials, ie: Dorthy from Kansas reports a 40% fuel savings, this webpage produced many very long reports by various testing facilities. The reported changes to emissions and fuel economy were much more modest, in fact I noticed a few tests showing a slight INCREASE in consumption. This tended to confirm that any effects the device may have had were minimal and that a slight deviation in recording could negate a small positive result (if any).

I tried an internet serarch to find a debunking claim and was not successful. All I found were further references to organisations and individuals that were using the device.

Tilly's ability in finding information that disputes various claims is renown. So come on Tilly, show us your stuff.

Simply listing this device with a bunch of other bogus devices is a cheap argument. It does not address the central question - does this particular device work?

I note that the device costs US$1,500. For what may only be a 2% increase in fuel economy, it could only be viable on fleet vehicles or generators that are using large amounts of fuel. For the average driver, pumping up the tyres and/or limiting the top speed of the vehicle would be a better option.

[Guest Close leongster]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

I share the viewpoint that car owners may be better off with better driving technique, proper maintenance and maybe a spot of extra lubrication here and there.

The whole point is to know if these cata-thingies can work, which of them actually do work, and to what extent they work.

But we'll never know for sure if we dumped everything in a box, labelled it "Dont' Go There" and locked it away in the attic.

__________________

I believe constant load applications see the most improvement - and maybe that's why long-haul operators and generators seem to see some benefit.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

Hello Terry

I have a better idea.
Instead of me continually wasting my time finding proof that these things are just total crap, you first find proof that the problem these things are said to fix even occures in our three dimensional non-mystical world.
Specifically, I need to see reliable proof that:
"Fuel molecules have a tendency to cluster together. At the point of combustion the outer molecules protect the inner molecules from being covered with oxygen resulting in some of the inner molecules going un-burned and blowing out the exhaust as emissions."

Also Provide Meaningful test results to a real double blind test on this product.

I picked one of the tests at random and chose This Test I noticed an interesting graph on page 11. Does this remind you of a graph posted earlier in this thread?
The Device offers no detectable increase in power or torque. Why am I not surprised. Surely if the fuel burned more completely this would result in an increase in power and torque.
Also, Rentar provided the fuel for this test. Hardly scientific in my book.

Tilly

[Guest Close David]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

If you sold something and your market was the world, you'd have to draw the line somewhere I guess. Car and truck makers can't control fuel quality, so they design and build according to known parameters, even if in reality those parameters are drastically different from country to country (or bowser to bowser).

Leongster,
I try to refrain from being rude on these forums but I have to say your obvious ignorance coupled with your thin and illogical comments that you come up with to force your views that you are right and there is no possibility that what you believe in may be wrong, is frankly becoming dam annoying. You are beginning to sound like a schoolboy trying to convince the teacher the dog ate his homework.

If you have a product that you need to produce on a mass scale you set up multiple production facilities ( factories) near your markets or you licence the production of your product to other companies who produce it for you or produce direct for their own use and pay you a royalty for the use of your technology. One term you may have heard of that applies to business who engage such practices are called " Multi national Companies".
Research the term, you may discover there are a few of these organisations around although it's a new concept that has only been around the best part of 100 years or so now.

To offer the excuse that a successful product would not be produced in the mass quantities the market would demand because the manufacturers/ owners of the technology " have to draw the line somewhere" is ignorant in the extreme and completely undermines your credibility an any other statements you may make.

Obviously you have no idea of marketing, business or manufacturing practices and have come up with an illogical suggestion that suits your obsession to push your views in complete ignorance of how flawed they are. I suggest if you don't know something, don't try to pretend you do and make a fool of yourself by spouting complete crap that other people will recognize as ridiculous straight way.

Your other comments are also completely irrelevant in what I said that you have quoted me on. No where do I see on any of these sites for these "miracles in a fuel line and insults to peoples intelligence" anything that states they only work with fuel of a certain quality. In fact, I believe I saw on one of these sites a statement to the effect they would help with poor fuel quality and perform even greater miracles.

Once again it is apparent your are creating ficticional statements to answer objections that are not in line with your own views. Unfortunately, the fact that many of your replies change the subject and don't have any relevance to the statements they address, only go to further demonstrate your lack of understanding in what you propose to change peoples views on to align with your own.


As for all these tests, reports and statements from the multitude of various and obscure organizations, I am wondering as to how many of them actually exist? It's pretty simple to construct a genuine looking report complete with logo etc but the real possibility is that these reports could be as fake as the rest of the claims these products make. If you say a test is done by an organization that doesn't exist, well there isn't going to be anyone to dispute they did the test or you are using their name improperly is there?

Before I put any stock in a test, report or testimonial by the likes of " The Mongolian Central Authority for Himalayan Yak Breeding and Sustainable Household Dishwashing Practices", I want to be able to conclusively verify such an organisation exists in the first place, they did do a test on the product and then that their reports do actually have any meaning or credibility.

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

It is very interesting to read the different reactions of people on this thread.
Let's try to understand why.

The thread started with a device that is a blatantly obvious scam, portraying once more the mythical properties of simple permanent magnets on fuel. Anyone that can use Google can find hundreds of articles written by scientist of more or less repute that coincide with the assertion that magnets dont alter the fuel, and much less, kill bacteria. Something that anyone with a bit of biology knowledge knows too.

Someone found however another device that does not use magnets or Voodoo amulets, but metallic and non metallic catalyst that allegedly have a temporary effect on fuel, an effect that lasts for a few seconds and that allegedly helps with combustion. The device was tested by dozens of very reputable lab and government organizations around the world all reporting variable yet encouraging results.

It is interesting to note that all the people who claim to use the device and being happy with it are drivers and users of large machines that gobble down fuel by the hectoliter, mining trucks, locomotives, furnaces etc. So may be, just may be, someone on that level of fuel consumption is happy to fork out U$ 990 because it can recover the money in a few month. (yes that is the price).

A thorough search for the usual ultra skeptic who jumps at the opportunity to tear down anything that is slightly different has failed. We cannot find anyone popooing this device in particular, no one offering personal testimonials of failure, scientific data as to why it does not/cannot work, only more and more test with positive results come up.

So why would anyone on this thread be so determined to show he knows more and that because there is a "Finch catalyst" all others must be a scam?

I think that people tend to react that way because the sight of success, that is someone else's success, at any level makes them angry.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not defending this particular device, only stating that I cannot find any prove against the claims made and therefore my rational mind tells me that there is a large chance that this actually works. In my reasoning I don't let personal values or anti values cloud my judgement. If the company selling this thing makes heaps of money or are on the verge of bankruptcy is irrelevant to the search for answers if this works or not.

So guys, regardless of what you believe or disbelieve about this thing, remember it is only one object of consumption and you as a consumer are offered daily hundreds of objects you choose to say no to, yet don't make you angry or all worked up. Why is this different? Because it may be a con? How many cons are there in your daily shopping trolley you happily accept as advertising hype?
I think that the anger at this particular device that appears to be successfully marketed, is at a more personal level. Here is a common guy who has come up with an idea and followed up on it and is probably making a mint. This si someone like you and me. Yet I am not as successful as him so I must find quickly an excuse as to why I am not making a mint. The usual excuses of you must have money to make money don't apply, the ethical objection is much more appealing.

This guy is a heretic trying to pedal a scam, lets kill it!

"Eppur si muove"
Galileo Galilei






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[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

For the one that does not know everything and is interested in the concept of molecular clusters

http://www.watercluster.com/

[Terry Syd Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Terry Syd]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

Marc, you beat me to the punch. The water molecule, one of the most basic in the universe, can have all sorts of properties that can be altered by a simple shifting of the hydrogen atoms on the oxygen atom.

If a simple water molecule can be altered to change its properties, a more complex molecule could have even more potential.

I am not endorsing this device, I do find the concept interesting.

The common rail systems appear to produce more fuel economy because the higher pressures atomise the fuel better. If an old indirect system can be made to atomise fuel better simply by changing the properties of the fuel slightly (say less surface tension) then perhaps this concept could have some applications in older vehicles.

If this concept works, then there may be further development to where smaller devices are developed at a less expensive price. I will not be purchasing one of these devices, however I am not so closed minded that I will refuse to look at subsequent developments.

I might add that there was a time when I had reservations about makeing diesel fuel from waste cooking oil. Even after I had made my first successful batch, I was still reluctant to pour it in my fuel tank. I was sceptical at first, but with enough research I became more confident that it was likely going to work - and it did.

[Guest Close leongster]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

Leongster,
I try to refrain from being rude on these forums but I have to say your obvious ignorance coupled with your thin and illogical comments that you come up with to force your views that you are right and there is no possibility that what you believe in may be wrong, is frankly becoming dam annoying. You are beginning to sound like a schoolboy trying to convince the teacher the dog ate his homework.

If you have a product that you need to produce on a mass scale you set up multiple production facilities ( factories) near your markets or you licence the production of your product to other companies who produce it for you or produce direct for their own use and pay you a royalty for the use of your technology. One term you may have heard of that applies to business who engage such practices are called " Multi national Companies".
Research the term, you may discover there are a few of these organisations around although it's a new concept that has only been around the best part of 100 years or so now.

To offer the excuse that a successful product would not be produced in the mass quantities the market would demand because the manufacturers/ owners of the technology " have to draw the line somewhere" is ignorant in the extreme and completely undermines your credibility an any other statements you may make.

Obviously you have no idea of marketing, business or manufacturing practices and have come up with an illogical suggestion that suits your obsession to push your views in complete ignorance of how flawed they are. I suggest if you don't know something, don't try to pretend you do and make a fool of yourself by spouting complete crap that other people will recognize as ridiculous straight way.

Your other comments are also completely irrelevant in what I said that you have quoted me on. No where do I see on any of these sites for these "miracles in a fuel line and insults to peoples intelligence" anything that states they only work with fuel of a certain quality. In fact, I believe I saw on one of these sites a statement to the effect they would help with poor fuel quality and perform even greater miracles.

Once again it is apparent your are creating ficticional statements to answer objections that are not in line with your own views. Unfortunately, the fact that many of your replies change the subject and don't have any relevance to the statements they address, only go to further demonstrate your lack of understanding in what you propose to change peoples views on to align with your own.


As for all these tests, reports and statements from the multitude of various and obscure organizations, I am wondering as to how many of them actually exist? It's pretty simple to construct a genuine looking report complete with logo etc but the real possibility is that these reports could be as fake as the rest of the claims these products make. If you say a test is done by an organization that doesn't exist, well there isn't going to be anyone to dispute they did the test or you are using their name improperly is there?

Before I put any stock in a test, report or testimonial by the likes of " The Mongolian Central Authority for Himalayan Yak Breeding and Sustainable Household Dishwashing Practices", I want to be able to conclusively verify such an organisation exists in the first place, they did do a test on the product and then that their reports do actually have any meaning or credibility.

David, please don't get me wrong - I was actually referring to car manufacturers 'drawing the line' somewhere, not the fuel catathingy makers.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

Can you Pick "The one True Fuel Catalyst?

There are many fuel catalysts on the Market today. All of them claim to have been repeatedly tested and passed these tests with flying colours. All of them can provide volumes of positive test results and happy customer Testimonials.
To date, most people have recognixed Fuel Catalysts for what they Really Are, an out right scam.
However, it has just been brought to light that one of these catalysts, by fixing a problem that does not even exist in the normal three dimensional world is "the one true Catalyst".

Below is part of the selling spiel from 5 different websites discribing the miraculous things these Catalysts can Achieve, apparently in a 4 and 5 dimensional world.
So, which Catalyst is the One True Real Deal if most of your driving occures in the Fifth dimension; A, B, C, D, or E?

A. The XXXX Fuel Catalyst dramatically improves the combustion characteristics of petrol and diesel fuel. XXXX Catalyst is not an additive but an actual catalyst (technically a liquid phase catalyst) which enhances a process - in this case the actual combustion of fuel, by modifying the chemical nature of the fuel, without itself materially changing.

B. the fuel passes over one or more complex alloy cores. The cores are specially designed to create turbulence in the fuel flow path, enriching the fuel and maximizing the take-up of trace metals. The fuel then passes through a sintered ceramic magnetic core which alters the free electron structure of the fuel, polarizing the fuel hydrocarbons prior to combustion.
The two processes, chemical and ferro-magnetic, essentially alter the molecular structure of the fuel to encourage better bonding between fuel molecules and atmospheric oxygen promoting a more complete oxidation of the fuel and, hence, a more efficient combustion process

C. Fuel molecules have a tendency to cluster together. At the point of combustion the outer molecules protect the inner molecules from being covered with oxygen resulting in some of the inner molecules going un-burned and blowing out the exhaust as emissions. When fuel is passed thru the XXXX Fuel Catalyst's patented combination of metallic and rare earth elements, just prior to combustion, a reaction occurs which separates the clustered molecules so more of the fuel molecules surface area is exposed to oxygen at the time of combustion.

D. All hydrocarbon fuels contain gums and resins which cause the fuel molecules of petrol and Diesel fuel to conglomerate in clusters. These clusters are too large to bum completely in the extremely short time that the burning fuel is in the combustion chamber. The XXXX Catalyst dissolves these gums and resins so that these clusters of molecules do not form, allowing all the fuel to be used for power.

E. XXXX Catalyst combines two proven scientific processes to condition the fuel, (Petrol, Diesel & L.P.G.) before it reaches the combustion area of the engine. On entering the XXXX device, the fuel passes over three - seven complex alloy amalgam cores. The cores are specially designed to create turbulence in the fuel flow path, enriching the fuel and maximizing the take-up of trace metals. The fuel then passes over two or more powerful rare earth, sintered ceramic magnetic cores which alters the free electron structure of the fuel, polarizing the fuel hydrocarbons prior to combustion.

Of course I saw on TV tonight that "String Theory" actually allows for 11 dimensions. The mind boggles

Tilly

[Guest Close leongster]

Re: The Fitch Catalyst - Genuine Improvement or Fake Hype?

Can you Pick "The one True Fuel Catalyst?

There are many fuel catalysts on the Market today. All of them claim to have been repeatedly tested and passed these tests with flying colours. All of them can provide volumes of positive test results and happy customer Testimonials.
To date, most people have recognixed Fuel Catalysts for what they Really Are, an out right scam.
However, it has just been brought to light that one of these catalysts, by fixing a problem that does not even exist in the normal three dimensional world is "the one true Catalyst".

Below is part of the selling spiel from 5 different websites discribing the miraculous things these Catalysts can Achieve, apparently in a 4 and 5 dimensional world.
So, which Catalyst is the One True Real Deal if most of your driving occures in the Fifth dimension; A, B, C, D, or E?

A. The XXXX Fuel Catalyst dramatically improves the combustion characteristics of petrol and diesel fuel. XXXX Catalyst is not an additive but an actual catalyst (technically a liquid phase catalyst) which enhances a process - in this case the actual combustion of fuel, by modifying the chemical nature of the fuel, without itself materially changing.

B. the fuel passes over one or more complex alloy cores. The cores are specially designed to create turbulence in the fuel flow path, enriching the fuel and maximizing the take-up of trace metals. The fuel then passes through a sintered ceramic magnetic core which alters the free electron structure of the fuel, polarizing the fuel hydrocarbons prior to combustion.
The two processes, chemical and ferro-magnetic, essentially alter the molecular structure of the fuel to encourage better bonding between fuel molecules and atmospheric oxygen promoting a more complete oxidation of the fuel and, hence, a more efficient combustion process

C. Fuel molecules have a tendency to cluster together. At the point of combustion the outer molecules protect the inner molecules from being covered with oxygen resulting in some of the inner molecules going un-burned and blowing out the exhaust as emissions. When fuel is passed thru the XXXX Fuel Catalyst's patented combination of metallic and rare earth elements, just prior to combustion, a reaction occurs which separates the clustered molecules so more of the fuel molecules surface area is exposed to oxygen at the time of combustion.

D. All hydrocarbon fuels contain gums and resins which cause the fuel molecules of petrol and Diesel fuel to conglomerate in clusters. These clusters are too large to bum completely in the extremely short time that the burning fuel is in the combustion chamber. The XXXX Catalyst dissolves these gums and resins so that these clusters of molecules do not form, allowing all the fuel to be used for power.

E. XXXX Catalyst combines two proven scientific processes to condition the fuel, (Petrol, Diesel & L.P.G.) before it reaches the combustion area of the engine. On entering the XXXX device, the fuel passes over three - seven complex alloy amalgam cores. The cores are specially designed to create turbulence in the fuel flow path, enriching the fuel and maximizing the take-up of trace metals. The fuel then passes over two or more powerful rare earth, sintered ceramic magnetic cores which alters the free electron structure of the fuel, polarizing the fuel hydrocarbons prior to combustion.

Of course I saw on TV tonight that "String Theory" actually allows for 11 dimensions. The mind boggles

Tilly

You forgot to add this one to the list:


www.solavite.com.br

(use the translator)

Oh, heck, while you're at it - might as well check out this one too:

http://www.solavitec.com/

Enjoy!


Leongster