FIAT Punto 1.3 TD: suitable for bio-blends?

[Tim H Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Tim H]

I have a 2006 FIAT Punto 1.3 diesel that I'd be keen to use bio-diesel in, provided I wasn't going to void the warranty. (I think the base model does not have a particulate filter, which seems relevant to the issue.)

The owner's manual and warranty booklet note that bio-diesel's okay provided it's certified to European standard EN590. A B100 retailer in Kempsey tells me that he believes the product is made to internatioanl standards and should be okay, but suggested I speak to the producer.

ABG (the producer) tells me that they manufacture to the Australian standard "which is similar but not identical to the European standard". It notes further that it recommends passenger vehicles use a B5 blend and that's what most retailers in NSW and Qld sell.

B5 is specifically "admitted" as okay by Peugeot Australia, while I see from other comments in this forum that VW don't want to know about bio-diesel at all.

I regularly travel between the mid-north coast and Sydney, sometimes with a big loop that takes me via Tamworth. Up until the response from ABG yesterday and this afternoon's perusal of this forum, I had thought I'd be using B100 but I accept that maybe B5 is a more appropriate target!

I'd be grateful of feedback from anyone who knows the car and the products (or knows anyone who uses bio in their FIAT or Alfa).

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: FIAT Punto 1.3 TD: suitable for bio-blends?

B5 - nah, don't worry about that mate! The Euro Standard and the Australian standard do differ in a few areas, but they are hardly relevant to whether biodiesel will work in your car or not.

For example the Euro spec contains an iodine level, as rapeseed does not contain iodine, but soy (used in the US) does. This was possibly done for economic reasons to prevent US imports of biodiesel to Europe,so hardly to do with the combustion of biodiesel in your engine.

The Australian spec, without getting too much into detail, meets or exceeds the Euro and the US specs in all the relevant areas and you are not going to have a car broken because a European manufacturer has not done their own testing on other countries standards.

It's more of an arse covering and bureaucratic issue here than a real mechanical one. Land Rover say no, but I run B100 and have not had problems, like so many other users here. Peugeot say 30%, but I run B100 - same story.

Now, as for the warranty, FIAT don't warrant the fuel, they warrant the car against manufacturing defects. If you picked up a dodgy tank of petro-diesel and incurred costs from the damage done, FIAT would wash their hands of the responsibility and tell you to seek compensation from your fuel supplier. Same for biodiesel.

Don't worry about it and go for B100, or whatever other blend you can get, providing you are aware of the possibility of having to change your filter the first time if there is any petro-gunk in your system. It seems you've done a bit of research already, so maybe you do, but if not, ask and we'll point you in the right direction.

Cheers,

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: FIAT Punto 1.3 TD: suitable for bio-blends?

B5 - nah, don't worry about that mate! The Euro Standard and the Australian standard do differ in a few areas, but they are hardly relevant to whether biodiesel will work in your car or not.

For example the Euro spec contains an iodine level, as rapeseed does not contain iodine, but soy (used in the US) does. This was possibly done for economic reasons to prevent US imports of biodiesel to Europe,so hardly to do with the combustion of biodiesel in your engine.

The Australian spec, without getting too much into detail, meets or exceeds the Euro and the US specs in all the relevant areas and you are not going to have a car broken because a European manufacturer has not done their own testing on other countries standards.

It's more of an arse covering and bureaucratic issue here than a real mechanical one. Land Rover say no, but I run B100 and have not had problems, like so many other users here. Peugeot say 30%, but I run B100 - same story.

Now, as for the warranty, FIAT don't warrant the fuel, they warrant the car against manufacturing defects. If you picked up a dodgy tank of petro-diesel and incurred costs from the damage done, FIAT would wash their hands of the responsibility and tell you to seek compensation from your fuel supplier. Same for biodiesel.

Don't worry about it and go for B100, or whatever other blend you can get, providing you are aware of the possibility of having to change your filter the first time if there is any petro-gunk in your system. It seems you've done a bit of research already, so maybe you do, but if not, ask and we'll point you in the right direction.

Cheers,

Robert,
The Iodine Value does not relate to the amount of iodine in the fuel, it is the result of a test which indicates the reactivity with oxygen (propensity to polymerise) of the fuel. It is an oxidative stability test of sorts.

This is useful information if the fuel is to be stored for a long time, or if made from highly reactive oils like fish oil, linseed oil, etc.

Regards,
Tony

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: FIAT Punto 1.3 TD: suitable for bio-blends?

Ah, sorry, I stand corrected.
I took some notes from a talk by Martin Mittelbach on testing & standards, and that's what I'd written.
We have a rancimat test to determine oxidation stability, does this replace/superceed the iodine value test?
(Oops, we're going off topic. )