"Green Station", Marrickville

[shaker Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shaker]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

Robert,

what is the address of the 'green station' in marrickville? I know it's not operational yet but i just wondered where it actually is.

darren

[darren leonadas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close darren leonadas]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

BRILLIANT!!!, As a NSW expat, I cant wait to visit my old stomping ground, all my mates live in inner south west in sydney, and fill up in sydney so i dont have to fill the back of the station wagon with leaking 20 ltr drums. or burn a less than B100 blend.
And further more for all my inner west mates to see what i've been telling them about for years, happening as a genuine going concern. I'm Almost jelous of you Sydney guys, but then again, I'm happy to be an expat living in the most livable city, . Dont wanna sound provincial, but Smelb's wil catch up eventually.

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

It will be on the corner of Marrickville Rd and Sydney St, Marrickville.

[jcaley Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close jcaley]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

Hi Morris,

I live in Newtown so the prospect of a local BD outlet is very exciting. Hopefully we can somehow wangle 'fleet' status or this. I would prefer straight biodiesel, 'winterised' in winter. Second choice 80% third 50% and so on.

I can understand the reluctance to sell straight BD to the public. I have experienced some of the small problems which can occur. There is potential for problems if you do not acknowledge this and educate the users.

Having said that, I'm keen to fill up right now as my supply has run out.

[Cameron Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Cameron]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

Hi team,
Wondering if we can't have a grand first tanks fill up visit to the new servo? If we had a heap of us there it will make for a great photo opp for Morris and for the Forum.

Whaddyareckon guys?

Cheers,
Cameron

ps Morris B100 is the way to go. Personally not interested in anything else.

[Lucas Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Lucas]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

yeah me too - my preference is strongly for B100 although the distance from where I live will make it a bit tricky to get there often. Morris - would you consider a discount to make it a bit more financially viable to distant buyers if we buy in 200 litre lots? A price somewhere between what we can buy from ABG or Rutherford and median retail could be good for buyer and seller?

Just a thought for you Morris as you ponder the name for the servo - I wonder whether "Green Station" tells enough of the story? Everyone from hotels that don't wash towels every day to corporations like BP use the word "Green" heavily in their PR materials and I suspect that many non-environmentally aware members of the public are probably a bit over the word "Green" attached to yet another cause that they don't really understand. My personal preference would be "Bio" or "Bio Fuel" because it is still succinct and it actually tells the passerby what the stuff is - fuel made from bio origins - which I think has a greater chance of geting their attention. Or even "Bio Fuel Green Station"???

Whatever you end up calling the servo - it's a great initiative - when will you be opening the Blue Mountains branch?

I hope it goes well! Once we know the opening date I'll see if I can get down.

Lucas

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

I heard from Morris on Friday that the process was not moving as quickly as he'd hoped - nothing to worry about, just waiting for some ABG people to sort some bits out. He had been hoping to get his fuel this week, but I guess we have to hold our breath for next week.
Now as for what Lucas has raised re the naming/branding: I've made a thread for us to suggest and discuss what we think would be good for this here.
I'll cut & paste the comments from Lucas in there and add some more as well.

[Cokeaddict Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Cokeaddict]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

Hi Morris,

I have experienced some of the small problems which can occur. There is potential for problems if you do not acknowledge this and educate the users.

Im wondering what the small problems can be ? As much as i want to try BD, last thing i need is to run into problems without being prepared for them. Is there anything we should prepare ourselves for BEFORE we fill up with our first tank of BD.

From what i have read so far, one problem could be clogging up of the fuel filter due to the BD cleaning out all the gunk, I am prepared for that carrying a spare filter in car incase it happens, but if any other problems may occure I would like someone to share with us what they may be please.

Regards Ange.

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

Cokeaddict - things to look out for:

It seems to be commonly accepted that years of using dino diesel will leave layers of sludge in the bottom of your tank. Biodiesel is a natural solvent and will clean this out. Typically, this will get stuck in your fuel filter.

Some people experience this, some do not. I believe that many fuel filter problems in the biodiesel world are also caused by the storage and pumping. When one keeps old drums at home that were second hand and had old crud in the bottom, then pump them straight out into the car, then the crud from the drum, mixed with the clean biodiesel that went into it will end up clogging your filter pretty quickly. I believe that this is far less likely when you are pumping biodiesel from a proper bowser coming from clean underground storage tanks. Still, there are many people who will recommend carrying a bit of stocking and stretching it over the end of the nozzle when filling to catch any bits that may be in there so they get caught there before they get caught in your filter (this is pretty standard and recommended practice when travelling around remote country stations with any fuel). Of course this will not catch any finer particles, or any water, but it's a start.

Now as for being prepared with your car: have a spare fuel filter or 2 handy in your car. If there is dino sludge that gets cleaned out and stuck in your filter, then you can easily pull over, unscrew your fuel filter and pop in the new one. It would be a good idea to be familiar with this process BEFORE you need to be. If you need any help, just post up a message (in a new thread) and I'm sure the folk in here would be more than happy to help. Once this has been done the first time, you should have a fuel system cleaner than it's ever been and then no more filter changes.

For those of you afraid of touching the insides of your car and messing with your fuel filters, there is a mechanics workshop behind the bowsers. I'm sure the guys who work here will become all too familiar with biodiesel. Perhaps it might be worth considering arranging something with them where they could assist? Perhaps as a group we could also assist by having some sort of meeting day where we could help each other with some basic mechanical education?

There is also the option of fitting a CAV (or similar) pre-filter to your car, which makes it a little easier and is good practice anyway even if using dino diesel. Search the forum on CAV for more info on this. A far cheaper option would be to simply buy a bunch of generic plastic inline fuel filter from an auto parts shop. I've found that they cost under $5 each and can simply be fitted in-line before your existing fuel filter. If they are clear plastic, then you'll be able to easily see when they get dirty. Likewise, you can easily unplug them and pop in a new one. It does not matter that they are not diesel specific. They will not last as long as a bigger filter, but it is a nice, cheap and easy pre-filter option to catch any crap before it becomes a problem.

I don't want to dwell too much on this, as quite possibly no one will get any clogged filters and I wouldn't want to scare anyone off. Still, it is always good to be educated.

[jcaley Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close jcaley]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

Im wondering what the small problems can be ? As much as i want to try BD, last thing i need is to run into problems without being prepared for them. Is there anything we should prepare ourselves for BEFORE we fill up with our first tank of BD.

Regards Ange.

1. Filter blocking.
Robert has covered this one of the little problems which may occur in his posting, (which I have also experienced with Dino diesel before I ever used Biodiesel). I agree with all his comments regarding this.

2. Car won't start in winter
Another one I experienced is the car not starting in winter. I have been told that the dino diesel gets cut with kerosene in winter to keep it runny enough for cold starts. The biodiesel I was using had no such thing in it so one morning in winter, my ute wouldn't start! The solution was to buy a 4 litre can of petrol and add it to 40 litre of Biodiesel in the tank Then it started perfectly. This is called 'winterising' the fuel I believe. Another user from the blue mountains says his car starts fine on straight biodiesel without 'winterising'. I drove to Armidale with winterised fuel. It worked fine in Sydney but the car wouldn't start in Armidale! I've been told that dinodiesel is cut with up to 60% kerosene in places like Armidale.
So Morris, what is your winter biodiesel plan?

3. Fuel water alarm
One day a VERY loud alarm went off in the ute as my wife was driving our on the airport to catch a plane. The cause - a water-in-fuel alarm. The mechanic said the filter was very clogged with stuff from biodiesel. (my mechanic doesn't approve). My biodiesel supplier said that the sensor detects oxygen as a proxy for water (H2O) and biodiesel has a lot more oxygen in it than dinodiesel, hence the problem. (what do others think of this?) Not all diesels have a water-in-fuel alarm anyway. Either way it hasn't happened before or since and I suspect it was something from the 20 litre container I got the fuel in. As Robert commented with the clogged filter problem, some of these thing problems are caused by using containers and won't occur when filling from a bowser.

4. Seals softening
I don't know much about this problem but lots of other people do. The advice to me from another Biodiesel user was that for my 1995 hilux, the fuel lines and seals would soften and need replacing after 100,000 km. I'll deal with it then. Best advice is to check for your vehicle whether the rubber componets are compatible.

5. Fuel pump wear
Not something I,ve experienced, but Vince Jones mentions in his article in the latest Renew magazine (page 17) that his (94 landcruiser 80 series turbo diesel) fuel pump wore out after 30,000 km. He inferred that moisture in the biodiesel had caused pitting corrosion. "Any moisture in the fuel turns to steam and in turn damages the pump by pitting the cast aluminium" "I'm now on my third pump". He runs both his tractor and his landcruiser on biodiesel that he makes himself.

But don't be put off. I want to buy some more! By disscussing the issues (rather than pretending they don't exist) this forum helps new and existing users avoid potential pitfalls.

John

[liquidgold Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close liquidgold]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

Dear Forum Users,
First of all if you have problems with biodiesel contact the manager at where ever you have been buying it and ask him about his testing procudure and to provide PROOF his biodiesel complies with the Australian standard for Biodiesel one of the highest in world.

Now that we have that sorted
1. If you have been running dino diesel for a long period then switch to biodiesel in blend or B100 your engine and fuel lines may experience a good cleaning so check your filter after a couple of days of driving. Then again after a couple of weeks then you should be in the clear, this is not difficult seek help from someone you trust for advice, it should be free as they will just pop your bonnet and take a look.----- Perform this again if you go up your scale in biodiesel blend.


2. From what I understand your biodiesel seller should control the winter quality of the fuel which again in turn will be controlled by the Australian government standard. So if you travel into a significantly colder climate you make experience slight starting difficulty but if the fuel is up to Australian Quality Standard it should be regulated on climate by the seller.

3. For all other queries go back to step 1. because this is a diesel replacment fuel no other problems like water detector alarms or pumps breaking and the like should happen other than normal. I'm not saying they won't and that your car won't break down but remeber if you are using good quality biodiesel you are useing a superior diesel fuel, this will cause your diesel engine to perform better.

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

A good point made about making sure that the biodiesel made by ABG (who will be the supplier) meets Australian Spec.
In order for ABG to get let off the fuel excise, they have to prove to the taxman that they can meet spec. If they couldn't, well, they would not have a very good business then would they?
So, we can obviously assume that it is in the supplier's best interests to meet spec, but if you did want to go one step further, I believe that every delivery of fuel from ABG contains a document of several pages with a detailed chemical analysis. Morris, can you confirm this?
Perhaps a copy of this document could be made available to purchasers if they asked to see it. Perhaps posting an example of it up here might be a good learning experience for us all too.

Usually also a test sample from every delivery is kept aside, so anyone who wants to challenge the quality of the fuel can easily do so. (Again, Morris, is this correct?)

Best not to come to me, but to go direct to the producer. Having said that, I'm sure that we can all solve our own problems by helping each other in here first before we start blaming the fuel. One of the reasons that ABG was cautious about selling to the general public (us) was that they didn't want the hassles of dealing with individuals who were new to biodiesel.

I'd just like to also re-enforce that I'm just an ordinary bloke like the rest of you who is not affiliated with ABG, BIA, BAA or any industry or biodiesel organisation. So when I say these things, I do not speak for anyone else.

The best thing is for you all to make up your own minds, request your own proof if required and be responsible for your own vehicle. Let's all sit back and try to help this fledgling industry get off the ground. This is the first service station that will be selling biodiesel like this in the Sydney metro, so let's help out by helping ourselves first.

[morris Member Find all posts View Profile Close morris]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

Ladies and Gentlemen,
Sydney’s first retail outlet for Biodiesel will be open starting this Saturday, 21JAN05.
Currently, the fuel pumps for B100 and B20 are not functioning properly, but B50 is good as gold, calibrated & certified.
Please come by the “Rally Service Centre” @ 73-81 Marrickville Road (Corner of Sydney and Marrickville) between the hours of 08.00 & 12.00 and grab a tank of B-50. It is possible we might have the B20 open by then, but it is hard to tell at this point. The price for B-50 will be $1.24. That is a good price considering the median price for diesel today is $ 1.29.
If you have any questions or need verification of opening times; call Rally Service Centre @ 9557-3235, or me at 0404-149-453. You said you wanted it, come and get it! It's cheap, it's nearly at your backdoor (compared to Rutherford), and without your support, I will stop selling Biodiesel.


------
Now for your questions;
1) Filter Clogging is generally experienced with HIGH concentrations of BD, like B70 & greater. Currently, I will NOT be selling B100, and B50 or B20, which I am selling, is not of a high enough concentration to cause filter problems.

2) Winter - same thing, B100 can be (depending on the feedstock) can be a problem. B50 & B20 will not. Remember, with B50, you are reducing GHG emissions by better than 35%. It is good for your vehicle, the earth, and the economy. If B50 worries you, try B20, I hope to have the pump ready on Saturday. The producers will mitigate winter issues by reducing the amount of tallows used and increase the canolas.

3) Each load, regardless of my supplier, will have been tested, and conform to the Aus. Spec.

4) If there were a problem with anything you buy at my station, we will listen to the problem, but in the end the Producer is responsible for the fuel he produces.

5) My storage tanks have been rinsed-out with B100, and they are clean. Then while we were adding the fuel, we added Algicide to inhibit the further growth. We have been very careful about these QC issues.

Best regards, Morris Lyda

[biofuelbaby Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close biofuelbaby]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

General question that can be answered by any biodiesel users. My jerrys currently have dirty residue from the old drums we used. What can I use to clean them out? My only general comment about the new station is that I don't mind initially using B50 as it seems that the product we will be using in winter will need to be cut with some other fuel. That said, my general preference will be for the highest percentage of recycled oils and fats for as much of the year as possible. I hope everybody gets out there and supports the new station and we can persuade someone else with a diesel vehicle to at least try one of the biodiesel blends.

Cheers

Phil

[Cameron Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Cameron]

Re: "Green Station", Marrickville

Hi Morris,
Give us a yell when you start up the B100?

Regards,
Cameron