land wanted to lease for new crop

[rainboaussie Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close rainboaussie]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

Hi vegiehilux,
This is just what I have been looking for -could be ideal -and the idea of working with you to produce biofuel is great -I am waiting for the guy that is still in India (I believe) to return and we can visit you and see what could be possible --5 acres is fine for a trial /just what I needed .
Can we contact each other by private message --dont know how to do that on here ??
Regards
rainboaussie (victoria )

[Jake Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jake]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

5 acres is fine for a trial /just what I needed.

Hi Rainboaussie,

Please contact me if you are interested in doing a trial on our property near Yass, NSW, close to the Hume Hwy. Area available up to a 5 hectares.

Jake

[Jacka Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jacka]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

This is the version that appears to be allowed from looking at the doc's on the AQIS website.

Jatropha spp.

These below are the versions that are specifically banned

J. angustifolia, J. messinica, J. phyllacantha and J. urens



Sauman you might be best suited to get us some info on the "spp" versions of Jatropha that is allowed into AUS about it's drought restance and pest's and etc etc etc etc

[vegehilux Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close vegehilux]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

Rainboaussie,

There is a private messages facilty here apparently, please check it out.

At worst, if you can't make it work, setup a hotmail address or some thing like that and post it here, and I'll contact you.

Jake has also made a similar offer. Might I suggest we try this in a couple of different places and share our results?

Let's not do what so many boffins seem to do in the way of going alone at great expense, to be "the one". If we warn each other of the stumbling blocks, we can then share the wins as well.

What about the toxicity issue, and the legals?

[Jake Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jake]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

Might I suggest we try this in a couple of different places and share our results?

Calvin,

There is someone in the Riverina who also might be interested.

Have you sourced Jatropha seeds or seedlings and would you be willing to sell these to people for trials?

[Chris Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

Hi Guys
All of you on this Jatropha trip may be served well by doing a search on the post's of one of our members here by the name of Xavier
You may save yourselves a lot of trouble as well as effort by going up a blind alley
There is no way that AQUIS will allow importation of any seeds wether they are banned or not for general release unless extensive trials are undertaken in qurantine conditions supervised by them
Give that about 5 if not ten years In the meantime you will have enough time to setup an economic as well as a succesfull method of harvesting the crop of seeds of this rather interesting plant
Once you have done with the harvest problem then find yourselves a few Million bucks to set up a decortication plant as well as an oil extraction plant to turn the crop into oil
Well after all of the above you can make biodiesel
I can tell all of you right now we do not have sufficient oil processing capacity in this country so as to turn what we produce in canola seed per year into oil let alone a rather difficult crop such as Jatropha or any other oil seed come crop for that matter
Fellows you are chasing a dream the hard realities are that Jatropha will be a contentious issue in all states
Why dont you keep it simple by the time you go through all of the above you Macadamia trees will be in full production they have lot's of oil in them they are a native of this country and you dont have any issues with any one
If you don't want to turn them into biodiesel you can eat them
If you have sufficient natural water ie rainfall plant Avocadoes same thing
these trees will produce a lifetime
They have an advantage over chinese tallow trees they are edible
Sorry to be a wet blanket they are the hard realities There is not much to stop a smuggler though is there?
An Italian immigrant did smuggle the carp in this country in the early thirty's around Echuca way, near the Murray river
He had them in his dam for years, no problems until we had a flood
We all know the result of that as well as the rabbit the fox the toad as well as introductions of water plants for aquariums which now infest our water ways
Any way you guys see it, in my considered view that this is an excersise in futility for the next 10 odd years at least
Food for thought Not that I think you have any bad intentions fellows it is just the way it is

[Chris Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

For our Cybor Guru
Spell checker please Robert!!!!!!!!!
I am begging you

[vegehilux Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close vegehilux]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

Chris,

I was thinking more a small project to see how well it works. Remember I only have 5 acres.

I agree that it couldn't be as simple as importing a variety of a noxious weed with a slightly different name, and probably rightly so, we've had enough stuff ups like that in this country.

But the chinese tallow tree is not banned yet, and apparently gives a very high yield of two types. Supposedly a tallow type fat is boiled off the outside of the seed, then an oil is pressed from the seed.

Do you know anything about this? Can both of these oils be used for biodiesel? How are the seeds harvested? I notice that birds eat (and spread) the seeds. Does that mean that the press cake can be fed to poultry?

Of course I am interested with the options you mentioned.

How does it go processing macadamias with their hard shell?

Do you press the entire avocado, or only the seed?

I did not see any multimillion dollar rigs on the sites about Jatropha, and they were refuelling their rail system (which I have travelled on) on fuel produced by small communities when possible.

I've never struck any oil, no matter how bad, that I couldn't turn into really nice bio.

The thought of doing it with fresh oil (and ethanol) that I produced myself is appealing, even if only for the personal satisfaction.

My offer stands. If anyone who reckons they know a bit about it wants the use of 5 acres, and some technical help on the processing side, give me a call.

Er...Never give up(?)

[Jacka Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jacka]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

Hi Guys
All of you on this Jatropha trip may be served well by doing a search on the post's of one of our members here by the name of Xavier
You may save yourselves a lot of trouble as well as effort by going up a blind alley
There is no way that AQUIS will allow importation of any seeds wether they are banned or not for general release unless extensive trials are undertaken in qurantine conditions supervised by them

Ok Chris I take your point but I would like to ask how is that even if AQIS have banned most of the Jatropha strains but specifficaly allow Jatropha SPP (what ever that may be) How is it that you can say they it is not possible in the short term to import Jatropha?

Now let me get it straight I have no idea what the SPP strain is nor do I know if it is a % wise higher production crop than any of the other strains but it does clearly allow at this VERY moment the importation of the SPP strain as refered to in my previous post in this tread.

This also does not mean that even though AQIS allow the importation that the State Gov has not banned it's cultivation as a noxious weed but it does go againts what you say about jatropha importation as a whole.

Further to be noted to this though is that at this point it looks like all forms of Jatrooha have been decleared a weed and banned in all 3 tropical states which includes Qld. This on it's own would preclude the growth and harvesting of the plant in the australian tropics. This still does not however affect AQIS and what can and can't be imported.

[Chris Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

Hi Guys
Look I have already said that you need to do a lot more work on this than meets the eye
The ins and outs of the Jatropha trip have already been discused at length in this very forum
There is no need to cover old ground
However there are a couple of points raised that may warrant an answer
If you do import the seed that is allowed by AQUIS than you may have to deal with the dept of enviroment use to be the department of Agriculture
By the way if any state declares a plant as a weed the other states have to follow suit even though the plant is not declared in that state
This is the case with Patersons curse between Vic and NSW It is not declared in vic however Around Mildura if you spot it and report it the department will eradicate it on public land If it is on private property they will force you to do the same
I do not know enough about the SPP variety or that much about the other 1200 odd varities of Jatropha that exist Sauman will be able to throw light on that one
Sure the biodiesel used in some Indian trains does come from Jatropha which is hand harvested by thousands of peasants for 50 cents a day
We have a lot of them in this country who are happy to do that I am sure you know where to find them
In China the crop is in essence cut above the trunk with modified harvesters which sets the growth back a while but they seem to feel that the setback as against hand harvesting the crop is justified due to cost
Just to make sure I make myself clear
I do not have an issue with plants to be grown so as to produce oil for edible or biodiesel use
It is simply that this plant has been declared as a noxious weed in this country rightfully or wrongly I am not in a position to say
Why on earth would anyone want to take on the authorities so as to convince them otherwise it is beyond me when there are so many other plants that can be grown without the hassles that this jatropha plant no doubt has
We do not even know if the plant will perform here in this country as it does elsewhere
Dont give up Eh! but dont be foolish either

[Chris Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

Chris,

I was thinking more a small project to see how well it works. Remember I only have 5 acres.


I agree that it couldn't be as simple as importing a variety of a noxious weed with a slightly different name, and probably rightly so, we've had enough stuff ups like that in this country.
Snip
I am glad you agree

But the chinese tallow tree is not banned yet, and apparently gives a very high yield of two types. Supposedly a tallow type fat is boiled off the outside of the seed, then an oil is pressed from the seed.
Snip
No issue with this one

Do you know anything about this? Can both of these oils be used for biodiesel? How are the seeds harvested? I notice that birds eat (and spread) the seeds. Does that mean that the press cake can be fed to poultry?
Snip
The oil is OK I am not sure about the cake Keep in mind you have to find someone to press the oil out or set up yourself

Of course I am interested with the options you mentioned.
Snip
Much easier than exploring unknown territory

How does it go processing macadamias with their hard shell?
Snip
We have been doing it for years In fact the shells do make excelent fuel

Do you press the entire avocado, or only the seed?
Snip
The lot the riper it is the more oil it contains

I did not see any multimillion dollar rigs on the sites about Jatropha, and they were refuelling their rail system (which I have travelled on) on fuel produced by small communities when possible.
Snip
You are right Sauman has set up a program that allows some of these people to now make 50 cents to a dollar per day by harvesting the seed of this as well as another plant that grows wild there
You could do that here as well I suppose via the WWOF program if you grow the plants organicaly But you have to feed as well as house these workers

I've never struck any oil, no matter how bad, that I couldn't turn into really nice bio.
Snip
That is right

The thought of doing it with fresh oil (and ethanol) that I produced myself is appealing, even if only for the personal satisfaction.
Snip
No problems here Have a look at the ethanol thread as well as some post's from Healthy Earth right here

My offer stands. If anyone who reckons they know a bit about it wants the use of 5 acres, and some technical help on the processing side, give me a call.
Snip
When you are happy with that You can use my 150 Acres which can also be irrigated as it has water available to it
It is in Mildura which means you can double crop a canola crop That goes for any one else here as well
Snip
No don't give up but choose your battle field wisely

Er...Never give up(?)

Hope that is of some help

[vegehilux Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close vegehilux]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

Righto mate,

Got all that.

Regarding the 50c/day labour...........no, I don't know where to find them.?!?

[Chris Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

Hi all
This list may be of some help for any one contemplating planting something on the land
Just to make a point so I do not get "wacked"
There numerous list's around from various sources
They all vary in the output of say oil on a per ha or acre
This is the end result of growing conditions as well as other factors such as water fertilisers etc
The interesting thing here is the yields of oil from macadamia nuts as against the "famous" Jatropha
Everyone seems to be taken with this plant for some reason that I have yet to figure out
As I have said prior this tree is a native of Australia there are quite a number of varieties available for different areas of the country
We know what it yields we know how to grow it we can eat the nuts as well as use the shells for fuel
We also know how to harvest it and most importantly There are no restrictions in planting it
To top it all off there are tax incentives if one is to plant trees as is done with almonds olives grapes etc (read Timbercorp)

Adapted from Joshua Tickell, From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank: The Complete Guide to Using Vegetable Oil as an Alternative Fuel. 3rd Ed. 2000.
PlantLatin NameGal Oil/ AcrePlantLatin NameGal Oil/ Acre
Oil PalmElaeis guineensis610RiceOriza sativa L.85Macauba PalmAcrocomia aculeata461Buffalo GourdCucurbita foetidissima81PequiCaryocar brasiliense383SafflowerCarthamus tinctorius80Buriti PalmMauritia flexuosa335CrambeCrambe abyssinica72OiticiaLicania rigida307SesameSesamum indicum71CoconutCocos nucifera276CamelinaCamelina sativa60AvocadoPersea americana270MustardBrassica alba59Brazil NutBertholletia excelsa245CorianderCoriandrum sativum55Macadamia NutMacadamia terniflora230Pumpkin SeedCucurbita pepo55JatropaJatropha curcas194EuphorbiaEuphorbia lagascae54Babassu PalmOrbignya martiana188HazelnutCorylus avellana49JojobaSimmondsia chinensis186LinseedLinum usitatissimum49PecanCarya illinoensis183CoffeeCoffea arabica47BacuriPlatonia insignis146SoybeanGlycine max46Castor BeanRicinus communis145HempCannabis sativa37Gopher PlantEuphorbia lathyris137CottonGossypium hirsutum33PiassavaAttalea funifera136CalendulaCalendula officinalis31Olive TreeOlea europaea124KenafHibiscus cannabinus L.28RapeseedBrassica napus122Rubber SeedHevea brasiliensis26Opium PoppyPapaver somniferum119LupineLupinus albus24PeanutAriachis hypogaea109PalmErythea salvadorensis23CocoaTheobroma cacao105OatAvena sativa22SunflowerHelianthus annuus98Cashew NutAnacardium occidentale18Tung Oil TreeAleurites fordii96CornZea mays18

I sincerely hope that people who are willing to plant an oil producing crop in areas that Macadamia trees will grow would really see the benefits of this
Our very own native that has evolved in this country for a few thousand years
When I lived in Sydney we had a Macadamia tree out the back yard which never failed to produce a yearly crop of delicious nut's My kids and I used to go "Hunting" for nuts, as they do fall on the ground when ripe
Hopefully this adds some weight to the benefits of sticking with something that is known rather than exploring unknown territory

[Chris Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

Sorry guys the formating has gone hay wire I will give it another go
It is hard to read as it is, although it seems everything is there

[Chris Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris]

Re: land wanted to lease for new crop

Adapted from Joshua Tickell, From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank: The Complete Guide to Using Vegetable Oil as an Alternative Fuel. 3rd Ed. 2000.
Plant Latin Name Gal Oil/ Acre
Oil Palm Elaeis guineensis 610
Macauba Palm Acrocomia aculeata 461
Pequi Caryocar brasiliense 383
Buriti Palm Mauritia flexuosa 335
Oiticia Licania rigida 307
Coconut Cocos nucifera 276
Avocado Persea americana 270
Brazil Nut Bertholletia excelsa 245
Macadamia Nut Macadamia terniflora 230
Jatropa Jatropha curcas 194
Babassu Palm Orbignya martiana 188
Jojoba Simmondsia chinensis 186
Pecan Carya illinoensis 183
Bacuri Platonia insignis 146
Castor Bean Ricinus communis 145
Gopher Plant Euphorbia lathyris 137
Piassava talea funifera 136
Olive Tree Olea europaea 124
Rapeseed Brassica napus 122
Opium Poppy Papaver somniferum 119
Peanut Ariachis hypogaea 109
Cocoa Theobroma cacao 105
Sunflower Helianthus annuus 98
Tung Oil Tree Aleurites fordii 96
Rice Oriza sativaL. 85
Buffalo Gourd Cucurbita foetidissima 81
Safflower Carthamus tinctorius 80
Crambe Crambe abyssinica 72
Sesame samum indicum 71
Camelina Camelina sativa 60
Mustard Brassica alba 59
Coriander Coriandrum sativum 55
Pumpkin Seed Cucurbita pepo 55
Euphorbia Euphorbia lagascae 54
Hazelnut Corylus avellana 49
Linseed Linum usitatissimum 49
Coffee Coffea arabica 47
Soybean Glycine max 46
Hemp Cannabis sativa 37
Cotton Gossypium hirsutum 33
Calendula Calendula officinalis 31
Kenaf Hibiscus cannabinus L. 28
Rubber Seed Hevea brasiliensis 26
Lupine Lupinus albus 24
Palm Erythea salvadorensis 23
Oat Avena sativa 22
Cashew Nut Anacardium occidentale 18
Corn Zea mays 18
I wont give up, Sorry third attempt. Need to take some advice of how to do it