Separation using high voltage works fast

[Sandman Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sandman]

Re: Separation using high voltage works fast

I have not heard that HV separation causes methanol removal. I have heard that is speeds up byproduct settling, but if settles pretty fast anyway, especially when adding the 5% water (by volume) to the partly settled mix, then remixing it.

Are you sure that HV separation causes methanol removal?

AFAIK, heat and airflow/vacuum are the main ways people use to remove methanol from biodiesel, mostly these are used together. Passing the vapours through a condenser is used to recover the methanol for re-use.

I agree that the thermal mass of a 1000 litre reactor would eliminate the need for heating during the reaction, but then heating during the reaction is not necessary for a 20 litre batch either.


Mu download is slow tonight so I will comment on the process after it loads.

Regards,
Tony

Hi Tony,
I am not sure either if HV separation aids in the removal of Methanol it seems that the process certainly speeds up the byproduct settling.
I am still a little uncertain after reading all the posts from the bio forums.

I will try and research it more, perhaps other members who have a better understanding of the process might like to comment here.
cheers
Sandman

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: Separation using high voltage works fast

The link you provided was to a thread discussing the ASTM test results for GLs processor, using methanol removal instead of washing.

The biodiesel reaction is not reactor specific and providing you have titrated correctly, measured your reagents and oils correctly and processed for long enough with adequate agitation, you should make high quality biodiesel.
There are some tests which you can perform at home if you wish to help determine the relative quality of your biodiesel. These are: 3/27 (Varnquist test for unreacted oil); viscosity (using a home built viscometer, reported as a percentage of the time diesel flows through it at a specifictemperature.), cloud point (refrigerator test). If you have not added water there should be very little water in the biodiesel.

I hope this helps,
Tony

[Sandman Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sandman]

Re: Separation using high voltage works fast

Thank you Tony,
Yes I was aware of the 3/27 test and I'm getting about 1/10 of a mill (just a few drops of unprocessed oil so I am happy with the result.
I have been playing around with a Gallager electric fence (240v not battery type) It puts out between 60 000 and 120 000 volts depending on which setting you use. It is a pulsed output as nearly all electric fences are I think, there has been some doubt on other forums as to the effectiveness of these units to use for electrostatic separation. I can report that on 400ml of newly reacted bio it works great. Took about 20 seconds to settle out the byproduct.
The next test will be in larger quantities. The output should be enough to use in a 1000ltr IBC, however the next test will be in a plastic 200ltr drum to see of it works (might even try it whilst it is still in the plastic cone base reactor tank) will diconnect all power to the reactor first though.
By the way you are correct about the process not de-mething, iit just helps to settle the byproducts faster.
Cheers
Sandman

[FrancyD Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close FrancyD]

Re: Separation using high voltage works fast

Hi everybody!

Electrostatic separation doesn't remove anything, it er... separates.
The higher your column of bio-mix, the higher the voltage should be.
Please read the thread from Graham Laming that is mentioned here.

The current is DC; it is an electrostatic process, where particles are charged
and therefore are attracted to one of the poles.
Soap and Glycerin have those qualities.
It is a static process and has nothing to do with electrolysis.
Much in the way as a Van der Graaf generator lets your hair stand up (remember that one from school?)

This means that current has to be kept to a minimum, because it has no role to play and could be dangerous.
Never EVER use whatever kind of transformer without a current limiter; I.E.
resistors in series with with the output DC.
If your 20MA neon transformer (to give just an example) could find a low resistance path through your bio-mix because of a freak occurrence, you could be in for a big BOOM.

Never use this method unless you are sure of what you are doing
Make a fail-safe switch to ensure the high voltage cannot be on unless both electrodes are submerged.
It speeds up the process and that's all it does.
You might get some soap in suspension dropping out, but de-mething beforehand is more effective in that regard.

Unless you are producing quite a lot of bio, or are on a schedule, I would say that this method has little practical value for the home brewer.
You can achieve the same results with a normal process; it only takes a tat longer.

Never made a drop of bio in my life, I don't even have a car.
But I have read a lot, because this is a fascinating subject AND I used to be an electrician once.
If you don't have current limiters on your device, the high voltage can and will kill you.

(I just became a member here for this post because for the first time I felt I had something to contribute,
but I have been reading here for over 18 months; nice place!)

[HV-BIOFUEL Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close HV-BIOFUEL]

Re: Separation using high voltage works fast

Hello I'm new to this forum.

I was testing and found a neon sign transformer works very well. Even if you make a questionable batch. My transformer cost $60 new but eBay will have a used one for much less. I tried this on a batch of methlbio. It separated in less than 2 minutes. But the neon sign transformer I have had for years is over kill. VERY DANGEROUS too!!!!!
It's 15,000 volts (15kv) at 60 miliamps AC current.
This is positively lethal if you are not very careful. Have fun but don't kill your self!!!!!