Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

[Peda Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Peda]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

I bought my pump from Ebay and it arrived to-day. The very one as shown in this link posted elswhere..
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BRAND-NEW-1-2... QcmdZViewItem

It has a cast iron pump housing with a brass impeller. I had asked the seller if it was a cast iron impeller and the response was yes. Guess it should be ok. I could have baught a similar pump from a local irrigation supplier slightly cheaper but it had a brass impeller also. I have since been told the brass is not a problem with the methoxide and bio, soon see!!

Geewizztoo,I like your idea of mounting the pump vertically to drain better. You seem to be using a lot of plastic tubing, does that handle the temperature ok?? I wasn't going to use a sight tube, rather, premeasure the volume of oil and just then pump it in to the reactor tank, is that reasonable??
Those pics are good, I am learning a lot from you guys, thanks.
Peter

[CueBall Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CueBall]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

Having had Robert's help to present my design to you all, I became aware that it had a failing that I had not corrected. In the form you have seen, I have the Methoxide container at the bottom left of the schematic, using air pressure to pump the Methoxide into the top of the Reactor Tank.
This is not an efficient means of mixing the Methoxide into the WVO, as it will release more Methanol to atmosphere (or in my design, release it to be condensed in the condenser, without doing anything in the reaction, i.e. wasted) as the Methoxide would be pouring directly onto heated WVO that is close to the vapourising temperature of the Methanol
A better place to inject it would be at the bottom of the tank so that the Methanol was being given the maximum opportunity to be used up within the reaction before coming into contact with the atmosphere (as limited as that is within a nearly closed circulatory system).

So most probably, the best means of injection of all is the tried and tested means promoted in the Appleseed design where the Methoxide is injected into the intake manifold of the centrifugal pump, so that the small dose being delivered constantly is mixed evenly with the WVO being pumped from and back to the Reactor Tank.

To just allow it to pour back into the top of the WVO within the Reactor Tank might promote the problem mentioned first above, so a better way would be to have the inlet point just below the surface of the WVO. This way, if the Methoxide input rate was too high for it to be completely used up immediately after injection, then at least the excess Methanol would not be being vented into an atmosphere but kept within the WVO itself, thus giving further opportunity for the Methoxide to be exposed to unreacted WVO.

So my design has been altered to allow for the Methoxide to be injected into the Pump Inlet Manifold.

Just when one thinks that one has it fully nutted out........Ahhhhh!!

In friendship
Quentin

[geewizztoo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close geewizztoo]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

Hi Peda

You seem to be using a lot of plastic tubing, does that handle the temperature ok?? I wasn't going to use a sight tube, rather, premeasure the volume of oil and just then pump it in to the reactor tank, is that reasonable??

The plastic tubing handles the temperature fine. It's that braided type used for compressed air. I was concerned more about the methanol, but it seems to cope with both heat and solvents OK - don't know how long it will last though. I recommend using a sight tube or at least some transparent tubing somewhere in the system. It helps you to see that the reaction is going OK and it's easy to watch the glycerine settle out. It may be just me, but I like to be able to see what's going on


Hi Quentin,

So most probably, the best means of injection of all is the tried and tested means promoted in the Appleseed design where the Methoxide is injected into the intake manifold of the centrifugal pump, so that the small dose being delivered constantly is mixed evenly with the WVO being pumped from and back to the Reactor Tank.

Yes, that is the best place to introduce the methoxide. But you won't need air to inject it. The pump will have enough suction to pull it in, in fact you'll need to put a tap/valve to restirct the flow or it will suck it all in a few minutes. I try to restrict mine so that it takes about 10-15 minutes to add 20L methoxide. This way it is gradually mixed with the oil in the pumps impeller. (I can see the colour change in my transparent pipe). The pump is supposed to lift 40L a minute (of water) but it's more like 20-30L/min of warm oil. So my pump should rotate the complete 120L contents of my Rheem in about 5 or 6 minutes. By the way, if you get the oil too warm (>55C), the methanol vaporises in the pump impeller, and stalls the pump. I know, I've learned from experience You just have to wait a while for it to cool down, then start again.

By the way, I have just one entry/exit port in the whole system. This is a tee with a ball valve placed just before the suction side of the pump. This is the lowest point in the plumbing and used for all fluid transfer.
WVO in, methoxide in, glycerine out, and finished washed BD out. There's no problems with cross contamination as the pipe drains itself by gravity. When I'm draining the washed BD, I find that the first 3-4L is cloudy from the soaps at the bottom of the wash tank. So I collect this in separate clear containers (fruit juice bottles) and let the white stuff settle, then I just pour the good stuff back in to wash again with the next batch.

[CueBall Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CueBall]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

I recommend using a sight tube or at least some transparent tubing somewhere in the system. It helps you to see that the reaction is going OK and it's easy to watch the glycerine settle out. It may be just me, but I like to be able to see what's going on

Hi geewizztoo
Having read your comments I think that I too will use some form of sight tube beyond what I was planning. I was going to rely upon sampling the mix to test for completion of reaction as well as having a sight glass immediately below the Reaction Tank to physically see when the glycerine decanting was completed. However, your argument has merit in terms of watching how the reaction takes place

The pump will have enough suction to pull it in, in fact you'll need to put a tap/valve to restirct the flow or it will suck it all in a few minutes. I try to restrict mine so that it takes about 10-15 minutes to add 20L methoxide.

I had not appreciated the ability of the pump's suction to draw in the methoxide faster than was intended. I was planning to have a metered orifice (small hole between the hose bringing the methoxide from its mixing container to the inlet manifold), and start off too small and just drill it out as required to get the right sized orifice to produce the correct dosing rate. But having low pressure (i.e. suction) present on the downstream side of the orifice would increase its flow rate, so thanks for this information.
Again, the things that one fails to consider ....Ahhh
In friendship
Quentin

[Peda Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Peda]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

Ok, so I like to watch also!! So I have just revised my plumbing to have a sight tube. One question about it comes to mind though geewizztoo.. Does the oil in the sight tube get mixed through as well when the system is recirculating and if so, what stops it from drawing air??
I will also have a braided plastic return pipe which will simplify the connection from the pump up to the top of the tank.
My pump has a brass threaded plug in the pump chamber and I was wondering, would that be a good place to inject the methoxide via a modified screw or similar with a control valve on the line??
Thanks for all the help so far..
Peter

[CueBall Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CueBall]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

Ok, so I like to watch also!! So I have just revised my plumbing to have a sight tube. One question about it comes to mind though geewizztoo.. Does the oil in the sight tube get mixed through as well when the system is recirculating and if so, what stops it from drawing air??
I will also have a braided plastic return pipe which will simplify the connection from the pump up to the top of the tank.
My pump has a brass threaded plug in the pump chamber and I was wondering, would that be a good place to inject the methoxide via a modified screw or similar with a control valve on the line??
Thanks for all the help so far..
Peter

Peter, if that brass plug is located on the outside of the impeller, i.e. in line with the plane of the impeller, then that is likely to be a high pressure region within the pump, rather than the low pressure region that is in line with the axis of the impeller i.e. the inlet point into the pump.
As such, you would have to overcome the pressure developed by the pump in pumping the WVO back into the Reactor tank with the pressure you are using to transfer the Methoxide into the circuit. Not a good idea, I suspect. if in doubt, put a pressure guage on that point and that will tell you if there is a positive pressure to overcome.

If that brass plug is at the bottom of the pumping chamber, you could alsways use it as a drain point for the pump with a suitable valve fitted to it. this way, you could drain the pump chanber to lessen cross-contamination.

Look forward to hearing more.

In friendship

Quentin

[geewizztoo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close geewizztoo]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

Hi Peter,

Does the oil in the sight tube get mixed through as well when the system is recirculating and if so, what stops it from drawing air??

The level in the sight tube does drop to almost nothing when the pump is running, and oscillates up and down. But it hasn't ever dropped to the point where it's sucking air. I've attached a drawing showing a simplified schematic of my system. You'll notice that I've put a ball valve at the base of the sight tube just in case it did suck air. I usually keep this valve shut while the pump is running, but I do open it for a while to let the WVO out of the sight tube, otherwise I'd end up with a column of unreacted WVO.

The top of the sight tube acts as the vent to let the air out of the tank whilst the oil is being pumped in and also to prevent pressure building inside the tank when the methanol is added. The open end is used again after the reaction, to pour in a few litres of water for the pre-wash once the glycerine has settled.

My pump has a brass threaded plug in the pump chamber and I was wondering, would that be a good place to inject the methoxide via a modified screw or similar with a control valve on the line??

Yes, Quentin is correct, this plug in the pump chamber will be on the high pressure side. Just tee the methoxide feed into the suction side, it's simple and it works.

[darren leonadas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close darren leonadas]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

Hi All. Paul Martin , down here in Melbourne has more experience in building Biodiesel reactors/plants than anyone i know. His phase 1 plant then phaze 2 plant are what helped start the Melbourne Biodiesel Club. Many people refer to him as a Guru of biodiesel, and i know him to be a close friend of Prof. Martin Mittelbech. Prof. Mittelbech confirmed this when i spoke to him at the BAA Conference in Sydney recently.
Paul has recently produced a "how to Manual" in simple laymen terms. and if you'd like to buy one just contact him on ravin_at_gfb.cc (please replace "_at_" with "@" - hidden here from spammers) or visit his site www.gfb.cc

Cheers All,
Darren.

[dillyman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dillyman]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

Hi Peter,

Seasons greetings to you and yours, I hope it is great for you.

As a follow up on our previous comments, I have decided not to cut off the tank top. Reasons are, the top draw off nipple is right at the top or the tank and the botom the same right at the bottom edge. I still had in mind the distilling process I used wth sump oil. This process being diferent. I notice a lot of process pictures have the pump in feed going in on the top tapping, this could be quite a profound and powerfull mixing process, I read somewhere that the mixing should be more moderate in force. If this is so the oil intake would perhaps be better in the top nipple - this will force the inward flow against the convex surface in the top of the tank and lessen the the internal forces. I could be mistaken , can one circulate with some pressure or is it better diffused, any help please??? The top tapping could then be the Methoxide intake, leaving the tap open to attempt some redistillation of methonal I have also decided to go the appleseed way and have recently bought all my fittings, tanks and piping etc to begin construction.

Just as a matter of interest, I got myself mobile and went around the traps. The Caustic soda (98% - 99%) is available almost everywere in 5Kgs & 10kgs sealed containers and 25kgs bags. It seems any wholsale soppliers to cafes takeaways etc and the commercial and domestic cleanings supplies sell it the same way its is a basic stock item. Prices ranged from $22 for 5kgs tub. - $33 for 10 Kg tub. There is also in Brisbane area a guy called Andrew who buys most of the carboys in the city areas and cleans them to EPA standards; they are then for resale. His web site is http://www.drumpack.com - look in his 'product' menu for a selection. I am about to canvas my oil supplies. It seems that most Chinese restaraunts have practically no waste, they reuse the small amounts they cook with and put it in the fridge for further use. These establishments dont do french fries, perhaps thats why, their use is mainly light oil for stir fry etc (my wife eats at these establishments as she is the coordinator of the Govt funded Literacy group in the area and knows them well. So around the traps I must go!!! Any comments please from anyone about some of these questions. Any help greatly appreciated.

All the best to all Forum Members for the season.

Rgds

Derek

[dillyman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dillyman]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

APOLOGISE TO EVERYONE - THE PREVIOUS POSTING ABOUT THE DRUM SITE WAS SPELT WRONG - IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN:------



http://www.drumpak.com

Sorry folks I put a "C" in it, it should not have been there.

Sorry!!!!!!

Dillyman

[reg Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close reg]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

I have built a processor too 200 litre drum with square cone on bottom.(much easier to fabricate than round cone).
I bought 2 of these 1/2hp pumps cast iron with air gap between motor and pump off ebay they cost me less than one from mitre ten with the postage.
Have only done 2 reactions so far with it,
I found that the pump will not draw up the oil from top of tank.
I fitted inlet pipe to bottom of tank through drain off and outlet just goes in over the side, not sure if there is enough agitation but i do get 2 layers seperation and a ph of 8.5.
This pump only runs for about 10 min then cuts out and restarts 3-4 min later once it has cooled down.
I have also insulated my tank with foam underlay wrapped it around twice and taped it all up.
Mixing methoxide in 20 container (the type detergent comes in) Give it a good swirl every couple of minutes and it is done in about 15 min.
Then i just pour it in to the top of the tank while the pump is running.
Seems to work i have been preheating the oil with electric hand held immersion heater to about 50c.
I then add to mixing tank turn on pump then recheck temp.
reheat if necessary.
Cold tank pump and hoses cool oil quite fast so a bit more heat is good.
I was going to fit an immersion heater but when i do my test batches i do not keep reheating the oil so why reheat all the time when doing large batches?
Also i am a little worried about people having these fixed elements in such close contact with oil that is not moving around, wont it burn resulting in more ffa's let alone boiling of the methanol too quickly.
I have read that the reaction should seperate within 30 minutes if it is to be succesful.
All 10 of my mini batches have sperated so far and have ph of 8.5.
The 2 20 litre batches i have done look the same as my test batches so i presume they are all biodiesel.
Must buy some sock filters, does any one know where to buy them from in Australia.
Thanks

[Peda Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Peda]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

Thanks Derek, Quentin and geewizztoo for the info. Sorta makes sense when you think about it.
Iv'e had a bit of a hold up on progress and in responding to the forum. Life happens when you are planning something else, but never mind should be able to get going again in the new year.
Welcome Reg, interesting to hear you just pour the methoxide in the top of the tank while the pump is recirculating the oil instead of adding via the pump inlet line, and a great idea for the formation of the cone on the bottom of the tank.
There seems to be so many variables of methods that still work that I am confident that I too will have success.
Best wishes and good will to all for the new year.
Peter

[Mr Ute Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mr Ute]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

Reg,

www.sefar.com.au for sock filters. They have a minimum order of 10 though.
If you are interested I can share an order with you, save a bit on the freight.
I think the 5 micron P1 sock was about $8.20 each. Let me know if you require the contact's email address.

[hdj80 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hdj80]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

Here is my Processor and other bits.
I just picked up another 120litres of wvo from a mate who's processor motor broke down, he is too busy to make bio and has approx 1000litres in 44's and 20litre drums. So I am happy to help out and move it for him.
The preheat tank will only be used when the fat is solid otherwise there is no need to fire up the burners, it also has a expanded metal waste paper fitted in the lid that acts as a strainer when I pour in the wvo, from there it is pumped into the processor heated, mixed and titration done from the oil in the processor while it heats. I use an extension lead that runs to the house and 15amp power and once processor is at temp that lead is packed up.
The standpipe is in the wash tank and by having a neck it never fills with water. After washing the bio stays in the wash tank with the last water wash until the bio clears up to a point where I can look down through the bio to the water surface, then the bio is drained/pumped via the standpipe to the storage drum at the far left. That drum now has a pipe to the bottom, a filter on top and a tyre valve. I use a little pressure to move the bio up the pipe though the filter, a hose and tap control the flow.
Anyway these photo's were taken before the first lot of wvo was introduced to it. I am however going to start mist washing as I am finding that bubble washing is hard to control on the first 2 critical washes. Once you get past those 2 washes it is easy.

[darren leonadas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close darren leonadas]

Re: Who's built a biodiesel processor/reactor?

Hey HJD80, this set up of yours looks pretty good, thanks for photoes, . The old hot water heater is becoming a very common resource.
Q. I cant see from the photos any part of the reactor that has an agitator?? Have you done away with agitation??
Please tell us how it goes.
Cheers Daz.