Water less washing

[Sauman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sauman]

Re: Water less washing

By the way Jacka,water is very precious at least from a Aus point of veiw.We are the driest continent.
Cheers
Sauman

[Chris Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris]

Re: Water less washing

Ok Sauman

Still doesn't answer the question what is the result of the left over?

At least with water washing the left over is not to bad you can use it or dispose of it fairly easy.

But what is left over in this case?

Jacka
Either way you will have the same amount of waste
In one instance it is in the water in the other in the Magnesol and the Diatomaceous earth which is also known as Fullers earth
Both of these materials are benign, one being a silica sand the other the remains of simple organisms from a past life mainly made up of Calcium
At the end of the day the residues from the biodiesel reactor are biodegradable the remaining Methanol will evaporate unless you have recovered it a bit of glycerine and traces of acid or sodium or Potassium
In the main though you do have the major portion being organic wastes, they do disappear in about 60 to 90 days without a trace
Diatomaceous Earth: Warning!
If you or any one is going to mix the stuff themselves a word of warning is warranted
The diatomaceous earth that you get from the pool shop to be used as a filter is Calcinated in other words it has gone through a heating process at high temperatures
DO NOT breath the stuff as it It lodges into your lungs it stays there, it is the microscopic fibres that break off from the material that do the damage
So treat it with respect USE a mask if you are going to handle it
Mag silicate has no known problems unless there is someone out there that can throw some light on that one as well
Cheers
Chris

[Chris Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris]

Re: Water less washing

Mate Jacka
You gave the game away. .
What if now the fish and chip shops find out about mangnesol and start using there oil over and over again.They will love you for it but us fringe dwellers will loose out on oil supplies. So shooosh.

Cheers
Sauman

Mate
They are already on to it
The clown has been doing it for years as well as any one else such as a chain of "fat food" or "up size me" merchant, that uses veg oil as a frying medium
These units were introduced in Australia by the good old "Colonel" over 25 years ago as his secret herb and spices that consisted of flour salt sugar and MSG ruined the oil
Don't have a crack at poor old Jacka
Besides what about the guys that want to make biodiesel out of the fat from the liposuction clinics, are you going to deprive them as well?
Either way we cannot loose now can we? We still get the stuff however modified
Cheers
Chris

[Sauman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sauman]

Re: Water less washing

Mate ,
As usual being a fair dinkum realist and walking encyclopedia you have so correctly pointed out that DE should be handled with care.It can get into the lungs and cause complications.In fact in India because of poor handling conditions,everyone working in the bleaching section of a oil refinery has breathing and related problems.
With regards to mag silicate>>>mate that stuff itches like hell for some reason.

Jacka was only kidding about giving the game away.

Can't win can we ,damn.We will find a way.I am hotdamn serious about working out a possibility of reactivating the nodes of mag silicate.Did everything I knew ....still nothing.I am now looking at giving it ultrasonic shocks and forced filteration...who knows...will keep everyone posted.

Cheers
Sauman

[Jacka Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jacka]

Re: Water less washing

Thanks Chris
Was not sure of the reaction with the mag or the DE would result in something that might pollute due a chemcial reaction! I understand that with water wash it is basicly soap after the meth has evaped.

Cool to know that it is no more chemically active than with water washing. Now justto work out the cost's associated with it and DE and see if it makes sense to use it rather than wasting our drinking water to do that same job especially when we have precious little of it.

I would say that this would be very useful for dry land farmers who have precious little water as it stands at the moment and may not be able to spare any to get involved in BD production. This may be a solution to that problem.

I am a nut when it comes to farmers and water even though I was born and breed in the city to city parents, I have always found the bush were my heart is calling out to and have always wanted to be there but alas that has not yet happened I just find it another string in out bow when it comes to getting the farmers onto this when they can wash their homegrown and prduced BD without the use of water in anyway shape or form.

[Chris Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris]

Re: Water less washing

Jacka
There are more ways to skin a cat
I have been working with a team of others on solid catalyst's for a while now let me say with mixed results
The point is there will be no need to wash the biodiesel if that was the case using a solid catalyst
A glimmer of hope is shining at the present with a slight modification of an existing process that we are experimenting with
It looks good we need to get the bugs out but, NO washing is required so The process is a bit unpredictable as we do not know what really takes place
So we keep going and we will see if we can figure it out
Once we do well, it will be good for all in the game
Cheers
Chris

[Sauman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sauman]

Re: Water less washing

Jacka
There are more ways to skin a cat
Once we do well, it will be good for all in the game
Cheers
Chris

Legendary stuff
It's after all for all of us.

Cheers
Sauman

[hdj80 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hdj80]

Re: Water less washing

Where is it???
I read a post a week or 2 ago about removing all methanol from the processed bio which in turn released all the soaps from the bio and after filtering left clean dry bio. Well I am buggered if I can find that post.
Anyway last weekend I made another 100litres this time I recovered methanol from not only the glycerol but I got approx 1 litre from the bio. I then bubbled the straight bio for 24hours and there is a heap of glycerol in the bottom of the washtank (which if I used water would have come out in the wash) and a small amount of soap on the top of the bio. Now I am faced with filtering the bio, I purchased a 5 micron sock filter for the job so I'll begin that this afternoon.
So where is that post??? Anyone?

[geewizztoo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close geewizztoo]

Re: Water less washing

Do you mean this one?

http://www.biofuelsforum.com/making_...or_vessel.html

[hdj80 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hdj80]

Re: Water less washing

Yep - ta

[ellas40 Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close ellas40]

Re: Water less washing

Hi Sauman,

I have emailed Dallas Corp several times about Magnesol d60 but have had no reply. Can get Magnesol XL here in Brisbane but it is $8.00/kg, which at 2% adds about $0.16 per litre, perhaps a bit high, although i have heard of people using 0.5%. I have a special sock filter arriving soon, which will be effective with diatomaceous earth, but need to reduce the costs.
I have friends in China who can get me some samples from those contacts you kindly supplied but is it the same product as Magnesol xl or d60?
I am very keen to change to waterless washing, but i think that some experimentation will be needed.
Graham

[Justin - OzFuelTech Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Justin - OzFuelTech]

Re: Water less washing

Hi all,

I would like to introduce myself and our newly founded Australian company OzFuelTech. We will support the Australian Biodiesel industry with the supply and distribution of quality biodiesel MAGNESOL, a specialist biodiesel adsorbent from the Dallas Group, USA. MAGNESOL is currently our primary focus, as we see the opportunity to produce biodiesel without the need for a water wash as critical, particularly in a country such as Australia where water is scarce resource.
Magnesol can be used to cost effectively achieve a high quality Biodiesel with less effort and with minimal to no environmental impact. The magnesol filter cake by-product after filtering can also be used as a biomass fuel in commercial boilers or burners or readily composted.
Ozfueltech is in the process of setting up a distribution network and will go "live" very shortly to make MAGNESOL available to Australian customers.
It would be good to gauge the demand for this product and also learn from the very knowledgeable members of the biodiesel community. I would welcome any queries or suggestions.

Regards,

Justin Hamman.

[Dodge Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dodge]

Re: Water less washing

Ok if i had 100 litres of biodiesel to wash how much magnesol would be needed, and how much would it cost.
And how is it done.

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Water less washing

Hi Justin, good to see some industry support in here for the home brewer. I've got no objection to commercial interests posting their presence in here as long as they provide useful info to the biodiesel community.
I look forward to your input in here and I hope that the exchange of information between your potential customers and yourself in here prove useful to us all.

[Sauman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sauman]

Re: Water less washing

Hi Justin, good to see some industry support in here for the home brewer. I've got no objection to commercial interests posting their presence in here as long as they provide useful info to the biodiesel community.
I look forward to your input in here and I hope that the exchange of information between your potential customers and yourself in here prove useful to us all.

G Day Justin,
Do you have some datas regarding magnesol like test reports ,real time figures .
It would be very cool if you share it in the forum with us.

Cheers
Sauman