Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

[andytype Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close andytype]

Hi
I'm trying to make biodiesel from MIBK solvent or mesityl oxide, has anyone made some with these chemicals. I've tryed heating soybean oil to 40-50degrees with mesityl oxide, but I don't think it makes a glycerin layer.

Thanks

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

andytype,
Please provide detail of your process and a reference to where you obtained the process for making biodiesel from soybean oil and mesityl oxide.

I have not heard of any such process and would be interested in filling any gaps in my knowledge on this topic.

Regards,
Tony

[andytype Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close andytype]

Re: Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

Hi Tony
I'm still trying to work out the process but, (ethanol->vinger)yeast->acetone+NaOH->diactone alcohol+iodine->mesityl oxide->something to hydrogenated it to MIBK, that plus NaOH and oil.
Extract the oil from dry soybeans with isopropanol.

Long winded, but the steps should be easy instead of trying get 99% ethanol

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

Perhaps you would find it easier using methanol?

The chemistry is beyond me, but if you do not get a byproduct layer, where is the glycerol, soaps and residual caustic, which come from the reaction?

Best wishes,
Tony

[WesleyB Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close WesleyB]

Re: Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

The book "Advanced Organic Chemistry" 3rd edition by Jerry March, Published by Wiley in 1985, ISBN number 0 471 88841 9, tells how to react your MIBK with methyl biodiesel to make a longer chain molecule on page 835. I have not done it myself,

[andytype Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close andytype]

Re: Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

Thanks WesleyB, I'll see if I can download it from google.
Are the steps for making BD from ethanol the same as for methanol? Thinking that a mixture of 10ml methanol 5grams NaOH 5 liters of ethanol and 20 liters of water, bubbling carbon monoxide through the mixture at 35 degrees with the vapors going through quicklime should purify the ethanol close to 95%-99%. Thoughts?

[WesleyB Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close WesleyB]

Re: Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

I made biodiesel from ethanol (99.5%), new corn oil and potassium hydroxide the same as making it using methanol, but use more ethanol in an equimolar amount to the amount of methanol you would have used, and you can heat it up hotter, something like 78 degrees centigrade rather than 60-65 degrees centigrade. .....A book "A Text-Book of Practical Organic Chemistry" by Arthur Vogel, Published by Longman, 3rd edition, published 1970 ISBN number 0-582-44245-1 gives a practical method for making 99.5% anhydrous ethanol on pages 166-167. In short,put 190 proof ethanol with calcium oxide, reflux six hours then let sit overnight. Then distill off the dried ethyl alcohol (using a drying tube on the still) to get 199 proof ethanol.

[andytype Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close andytype]

Re: Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

The book helped, I think I got the setup working....should be easier to distill.Someone else might use it.
Three 44gallon drums, the first drum has a pipe going down to the bottom were carbon monoxide is pumped in, and mixed with methanol(21 liters) and sodium hydroxide(100gram), at the top a pipe goes from there into the second tank filled with 20% ethanol, 20litres of water and 5 liters of ethanol, the vapors from the first tank(methyl formate 35bp) mix with water to make formic acid which reacts with the ethanol to make methanol/ethanol formate and water, the temperature of the second drum is 60 degrees which goes into the third drum which has sodium methoxide/methanol(0.5litres) and changes to ethanol/methanol and carbon monoxide.

[WesleyB Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close WesleyB]

Re: Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

As best I can guess without having done it, based on a book explanation, Put 335 ml methyl biodiesel + 125 ml methyl isobutyl ketone into a boiling flask. Add, say 50 ml potassium methoxide solution to the flask. Reflux long enough, to get a longer carbon chain than was present in the starting material. That would be making a type of biodiesel using MIBK as one of the starting materials. But the product might not be a liquid, since the carbon chain would be long.............................................. .................................................. .......... Here my supplier sells 4 litres of methyl isobutyl ketone (lab grade) for over 200 dollars.

[andytype Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close andytype]

Re: Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

" Your ethanol will have to be EXTREMELY dry. 199-proof or higher. "Absolute" ethanol. Any more than one half of one percent water can kill the reaction. Denaturants like methanol, isopropyl alcohol, MIBK, etc., are fine" from http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_...tml#ethylester , the step (ethanol->vinger)yeast->acetone+NaOH->diactone alcohol+iodine->mesityl oxide->Hydrogen gas + Pd/C catalyst =MIBK shouldn't be to hard, theres no distilling just separating the different substances that don't combine, the iodine used is like 1gram and NaOH/Pd/C is 1 gram, I've gone to the stage of mesityl oxide, but don't have the catalyst to say weather MIBK is made. for $1.60 litre to $2.00 to make MIBK which is sugar cost.

[WesleyB Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close WesleyB]

Re: Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

andytype; Raney nickel might work for your hydrogenation of mesityl oxide. It might cost less than the suggested palladium catalyst. Thanks

[WesleyB Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close WesleyB]

Re: Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

This methyl isobutyl ketone is a peroxide former. Once you make it, use it don't store it for a long time.

[andytype Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close andytype]

Re: Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

Once I make it, I'm not sure how to go about mixing it with oil. What would be the reaction between sodium methoxide and MIBK in oil.

[WesleyB Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close WesleyB]

Re: Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

I'm speculating but I believe there will be little or no reaction between methyl isobutyl ketone and vegetable oil with the strong base catalyst partly because of steric hinderance.

A primary alcohol will transesterify with vegetable oil but isopropyl alcohol (a secondary alcohol) doesn't seem to, probably because of steric hinderance.
I believe the product would be a solid if it did react.

[WesleyB Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close WesleyB]

Re: Makingbiodiesel from MIBK

andytype; How much of this chemical are you trying to make on the first run? Are you a chemistry student? I think octadecanoic acid methyl ester will make 2,4-methyl-5-methyl methanoate-4-heneicosene with your methyl isobutyl ketone and potassium methoxide as a strong base.