Engine oil level increases between changes

[Captaincademan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captaincademan]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

Mate that’s not a viton seal. Viton seals are brown in colour. Well at least the ones I have seen are. I wouldn’t fit that as you will only be pulling it off again in a couple of years. I don’t know much about the expected play in the shaft. I am personally surprised there is any though. I expected all play to be taken up with the bearing.

If the ridge is behind where the seal goes to, it’s probably just tooling marks from when it was turned down.

Get a a new viton seal is my advice.

[Johnnojack Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johnnojack]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

Does seem like a lot of play in that shaft, you can actually see it (video) rather than just feel it which is a bit harder to transmit by electronic means. I just checked my spare pump which has done about 200k and while I can just pick some movement I certainly can't see it. Re shaft groove I have heard that you can seat the new seal in a new position, ie don't push it in the full amount.

[3DB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 3DB]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

if you have a decent dial gauge and data for the correct setting

I've seen dial gauges but never really used one. Looks pretty straightforward.
Are they universal fitment / come with different attachments for different port sizes?
Any recommendations on where to start looking for one? Seems to be a few on eBay for as little as $58

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Diesel-F...EAAOSwA29Y3zWg

I will have to make the decision today on whether to continue with the existing IP or get an exchange. If I go down the exchange route I guess I will need the dial gauge to set the timing correctly. I found this fairy informative video on setting it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI_iV4nlEq0

Considering the time involved to get it out and back in again, I don't really want to take any chances.

Regarding that seal, it was sold as Viton. It is kind of a dark grey colour and does look different to a normal back rubber / nitrile seal. I have bought other o-rings sold as Viton that are a similar colour. I have also seen the brown ones more commonly too. What can you do but take the sellers word for it?

[Captaincademan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captaincademan]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

Well you learn something new everyday eh? I just did a google search on Viton seals and see they are available now in a multitude of colours. I stand corrected.

Im sure that dial gauge would be fine. I bought mine from total tools, im not sure now what I paid as it was a couple of years ago.

That video is an excellent video. You just need the setting for your engine / pump now and you can easily time it.

The dial gauge is useful for many things - disk rotor tolerances, turning steel on a lathe etc etc. its just the little adapters that make it useful for timing an IP. I woul dbe surprised if one of those threads didnt fit the back of your pump. On the 1HZ you need to remove the oil filter and catch tray in order to be able to get the gauge in position. you may find you need to do something similar

[Johnnojack Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johnnojack]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

I'd still put it back in, you've determined the seal was no good, right? You have new one, you've lost nothing by putting the pump back on with a new seal. With wear in the shaft the new seal may not last 100,000ks but it could well go a couple of years at least. BTW when I replaced my pump in Isa it hadn't been set up by a diesel shop as I planned to sell the vehicle it came out of which I bought as a wreck. The injection pump had, 'blown up' according to the diesel shop the previous owner had sent it to. All the parts minus the seals were dumped together in a big plastic bag. Anyway to cut a long story a bit shorter I fixed it at home and it is still running fine today. I didn't set the timing other than doing a couple of hundred ks noticed the power was a bit down so advanced it a few tads. Rattled a bit much so took it back a tad, all good.
Trust yourself and have a crack. You should be able to get yours back exactly as it was, so no timing required.

[3DB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 3DB]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

Trust yourself and have a crack

You inspired me, John. I put it all back together today with the new seal and it is running same as it ever did.

One issue I had was that I couldn't get one of the rear mounting bolts back in - the one closest to the block. The angle of the pump was such that I couldn't get it straight enough to start the threads. I could have rotated the pump, but I didn't want to mess with the timing. I ground about 4mm of threads off it and still couldn't get it in!

What's involved with rotating the pump once it's in? Will I need to remove the hard fuel lines again? Ideally I don't want to leave that bolt out as I suppose with only 3 in the alloy casting on the pump body could crack over time.

I also did the valve clearances and most of them seemed tight rather than loose - this is also commonplace on the Mercedes OM617 engine - is it diesel thing in general?

One thing I did find though that I'm concerned about, is the very rear rocker arm had a lot of sideways play. It felt like it needed to be shimmed or something. It rocks on a long rail and it seems like the only thing holding it in place at top-dead-centre is a circlip at the end. It wouldn't be hard to add some metal or nylon shims if I got the right size. I've made another little video to show it:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dp620g4rhw...%20pm.mov?dl=0

[Johnnojack Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johnnojack]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

Mounting bolts. I think that the 4 bolts are the ones which hold the steel mounting plate to the engine. The alloy IP body is held by just 2 bolts to that plate. It should have, (saying only because my Jackaroo has one) a heavy steel bracket under the back of the pump which does the main supporting role for the pump mounting. Sent you a photo if you can post it. That said I have seen other engines with only the 2 front flange bolts holding the pump on the engine. Perhaps the Jackaroo is built a bit tougher for 4wding I don't know.
Re the valve rocker I don't really know but I'd look for any adverse wear caused by the excess lateral movement, if none then leave it. Regards Johnno

[Captaincademan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captaincademan]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

Good stuff. Glad you got it back together and it runs well!

Concur with Johnno, if it isnt wearing, I would leave it too. Does it make lots of noise? if it is quiet I would definitely leave it.

[3DB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 3DB]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

if it isn't wearing, I would leave it too. Does it make lots of noise? if it is quiet I would definitely leave it.

Now that I've seen it, I'm hearing noises! You know how it is. No obvious signs of wear that I noticed. Who knows how long it has been like that, so I'll let it go for now and get some other opinions.

Regarding the mounting bolt - Johnno I did get your photo and have uploaded a marked up version to Dropbox:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/55map0iscg...%20IP.JPG?dl=0

I have two places where my pump bolts to the steel bracket as shown in the photo. The one closest to the block is my problem due to the angle of the pump hard up against the block - it was quite tough to remove too because of this. If I had my time over, I would have loosely screwed this bolt into the bracket before re-inserting the pump. But once I got the pump in I wasn't keen to take it out again to get that bolt in. I reckon I can get the bolt in if I loosen the two timing screws and rotate the bottom of the pump away from the block slightly. I have made some punch marks on it, so should be able to get it back to where it was again. Just not thrilled with having to undo the hard lines again and spill more fuel everywhere, but if I have to do it, so be it.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

Hi 3DB,

There is clearly a design fault here.
I have checked the appropriate JSA industrial standard and it clearly states that, at a minimum, for automotive equipment exported to Australia, the equipment is to be designed in such a way that no more 1/3 of the mounting bolts are to be able to be reinstalled without first completely removing the engine from the car. It further states that designing the equipment is such a fashion that mounting bolts can not be reinstalled without first removing the Crankshaft is desirable, this is not yet compulsory.

[3DB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 3DB]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

There is clearly a design fault here..

Agree - totally non-compliant.

I lived in the US for a while and while their vehicles have many shortcomings, the older ones are so much easier to work on. Everything is easily accessible and fairly straightforward. My Mercedes is an amazing piece of engineering for its time - 4 wheel disc brakes and independent rear suspension in 1976 - it took Ford and GM another 20 years to get there, but a lot of the tech like 'vacuum everything' and hydraulic self-levelling suspension sure is a pain in the ar5e 40 years later if it hasn't been maintained well.

I honestly don't know how backyarders deal with compact Japanese and European front-wheel-drive cars.

[Johnnojack Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johnnojack]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

Ok I now know which bolt it is. At least you have the bracket under it, the second bolt is probably just the belt of a belt and braces bit of engineering. Regarding the injector lines I think if you just crack them loose on the distributor head before rotating the pump they should be ok. The pump can't turn very much anyway before hitting the block. Hopefully you can get the bolt in. Those 2 bolts have Allen heads don't they? Also the bracket has slots in it so maybe the one you can't get in is hitting the end of the slot. Loosen the 2 on the engine.

[3DB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 3DB]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

Those 2 bolts have Allen heads don't they?

Mine are 14mm hex head M10 x 1.5. Thankfully they aren't Allen or I'd be stuffed I reckon - or just have to buy a set of Allen sockets.

I went to try to turn the pump to put the bolt in today and you wouldn't believe it - I somehow lost my anti-theft wheel nut adaptor, so I couldn't take the wheel off. I wasted a good half hour hunting everywhere for it, then (like an idiot) tried to:

1. cold chisel the wheel nut off - waste of time
2. weld a 3/4" socket onto it - chrome doesn't weld very well
3. weld another wheel nut onto it - see point 2
4. drill a hole in it and wind it out with an easy-out bolt extractor. I blunted several drill bits and destroyed the easy-out.

All of this took at least another hour until I drove down to the local K-mart Tyre & Auto and the legend of a bloke there had a massive battery impact driver and a special set of sockets that cut into the wheel nut to extract them. He pulled all 4 in a couple of minutes and wouldn't charge me for it.

What a nightmare. I can't believe this hasn't happened before today though, so they are all going the recycling bin and standard ones put on.

So now I'm another 3 hours down the tube and am running on 75% of my injector pump bolts and 83% of my wheel nuts.

I can't help but feel I'm going backwards somehow...

Oh, and I also I found that my water-to-air intercooler that I was so proud of is now leaking coolant from the core into the intake manifold. Who knows how long that has been happening, but lucky I caught it before it really failed and I had a hydraulic lock-up!

��

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

Mine are 14mm hex head M10 x 1.5. Thankfully they aren't Allen or I'd be stuffed I reckon - or just have to buy a set of Allen sockets.

I went to try to turn the pump to put the bolt in today and you wouldn't believe it - I somehow lost my anti-theft wheel nut adaptor, so I couldn't take the wheel off. I wasted a good half hour hunting everywhere for it, then (like an idiot) tried to:

1. cold chisel the wheel nut off - waste of time
2. weld a 3/4" socket onto it - chrome doesn't weld very well
3. weld another wheel nut onto it - see point 2
4. drill a hole in it and wind it out with an easy-out bolt extractor. I blunted several drill bits and destroyed the easy-out.

All of this took at least another hour until I drove down to the local K-mart Tyre & Auto and the legend of a bloke there had a massive battery impact driver and a special set of sockets that cut into the wheel nut to extract them. He pulled all 4 in a couple of minutes and wouldn't charge me for it.

What a nightmare. I can't believe this hasn't happened before today though, so they are all going the recycling bin and standard ones put on.

So now I'm another 3 hours down the tube and am running on 75% of my injector pump bolts and 83% of my wheel nuts.

I can't help but feel I'm going backwards somehow...

Oh, and I also I found that my water-to-air intercooler that I was so proud of is now leaking coolant from the core into the intake manifold. Who knows how long that has been happening, but lucky I caught it before it really failed and I had a hydraulic lock-up!

��

3DB,
Water - Air intercoolers are really good for Petrol engines because they are on boost much less than diesels, which are on boost whenever over 2K RPM. For diesels, Air - Air intercoolers are the way to go (and you don't get the water going into the manifold either) Plenty of choice for used air - air intercoolers too.
The size of the intercooler is a trade off between intercooler size and turbo lag (due to compressing much more air in the plumbing, intercooler and inlet manifold, and friction losses in them, then just in the plumbing and the inlet manifold)

A whole other field of study.

[3DB Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 3DB]

Re: Engine oil level increases between changes

3DB,
Water - Air intercoolers are really good for Petrol engines because they are on boost much less than diesels, which are on boost whenever over 2K RPM. For diesels, Air - Air intercoolers are the way to go (and you don't get the water going into the manifold either) Plenty of choice for used air - air intercoolers too.
The size of the intercooler is a trade off between intercooler size and turbo lag (due to compressing much more air in the plumbing, intercooler and inlet manifold, and friction losses in them, then just in the plumbing and the inlet manifold)

A whole other field of study.

At the risk of taking this topic on a tangent, I think the efficiencies of both types of intercooler could be identical if sized appropriately. Water has a higher heat storage capacity than air so that type can have a smaller surface area to remove the same amount of heat with less resistance and pressure drop. The downside is more complex plumbing and a secondary cooling circuit requiring a pump and, as I have found, potential for leaks into the engine. One other upside for 4x4s is they work better than air-to-air at low speed when there is limited air flow.


air-to-air are much simpler but require larger surface area, ideally at the front of the vehicle. This is the main reason I didn’t go down that road - my bullbar limits space. That and trying to run 2.5” or larger pipework between the turbo, intercooler and intake proved difficult.


For now I will just go back to the OEM no charge cooling.


I’m interested to see what my EGTs will do without it.