Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

[Chris Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

Hi All
That's the spirit Marc1 Good on you
Have a happy break and please leave the JTF thread alone as well as post's which give reason for others to question this site as well as its participants

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

So who is going to volonteer a visit to Giluma and talk to the person in charge about the benefits of biodiesel?
Giluma Cooks Diesel Injection and Auto Electrical Service Centre Smithfield your Bosch Automotive Service Centre

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

So who is going to volonteer a visit to Giluma and talk to the person in charge about the benefits of biodiesel?
Giluma Cooks Diesel Injection and Auto Electrical Service Centre Smithfield your Bosch Automotive Service Centre

A good point. This sort of thing must be done and must be done properly. Perhaps giving them a quantity of biodiesel (that meets spec) and a non-confrontational education session to let them feel that they've discovered it themselves. If they can stop standing on the rumours and official statements from OEMs and do some of their own research, then they would certainly become allies.
Of course, they would still see problems caused by bad biodiesel, as they would bad petrodiesel, but hopefully once educated, they would not simply blanket ban it.
Perhaps this could be one of the things that ABU could assist with. We'd need someone mechanically astute, so that these people could be addressed on equal standing.

[Guest Close David]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

So who is going to volonteer a visit to Giluma and talk to the person in charge about the benefits of biodiesel?

Who Better than yourself Marc?

You are a customer of the business, have experience with Bio, don't live too far away and have single minded enthusiasm in the Championing of any cause you belive in no matter what the opposition.

Maybe Robert or others could help you with some literature and web site references to give them as supporting material for their own research as well.

It certainly would be a great opportunity for you to make a practical and benificial contribution to the bio fuels cause which would no doubt benifit a lot of people in the long run.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

Best of luck with it. I am currently dealing with the local diesel workshop, and I guess the problems are perhaps "cultural". I did get the guy there to see things a bit from my perspective however, when I said it gets worse than biodiesel, I run my merc on SVO, and if it dies now and I leave it by the side of the road, I am financially ahead.
Talking to the local diesel specialist though I get the feeling that...
1 Unlike just about any other buisness in the world, diesel repair shops dont want repeat customers. If the repairer never sees the customer again, he has done his job well. If he does see the customer again, chances are the customer is not likely to be happy. Of course there are exceptions to this, but this is where the repairer comming from.
2 The best way to avoid repeat customers is to make sure things are set to the "factory" settings. Slight overfueling is OK (they have expiremented with this, seen power gains, and if it blows black smoke, they know they have oversteped the mark, getting the timing out is not. Asfor not putting what the manufacturer reccomends..... Talking to the local one about problems with over advanced engines like mine (1*) he said "yes you would be operating outside the parameters that the engine is designed for by advancing the engine" it was getting into an area he was unconfortable with, namely doing something the engine was not designed for.
3 from their perspective, we are idiots. Ok perhaps only I am an idiot, but after looking through my replaced parts in the injector pump, I am not anywhere as knowledgeable as they are. Not only do these people know how it works, they can fix it, set it and tune it, and even know why it is designed that way. Unless you are going to talk to them on their level, you probably are not going to convince them you know what you are on about.
4 also tanking to a truck mechanic (which is reasonably related to injector pump mechanics) he would not do a half job on anything. If the engine needed pistons, he would not do rings if they were only going to last a year, even if the customer requested a cheap job. His argument was in 6 months, the customer wont remember how much he spent (or the biodiesel in the system) but he will remember who did the job. If they think something will fail, they are less likely to do the job. I guess from their perspective, if the customer is buying one product or another, you can understand why the injector place would say "buy diesel", and they probably wont see the customer again. If they say "yeah go to volume plus" and the customer is back in 6 months, the customer wont be happy.

Mind you if you can get them to realise the difference between biodiesel, and the snot volume plus calls biodiesel (If you are from volume plus, Marc1 fuel tank contents looks like snot) you will have done well and it will probably be worth the effort. I dont think they will ever reccomend biodiesel though. Even if you can get them to say "volume plus is rubbish, we dont object to ibiodiesel, but we are yet to see any good stuff" you will have done well.

1* Aparently on a turbo landcruiser over advancing the engine blows pinholes through the piston, which presurises the sump, blows oil past the seals in the turbo, which is burnt in the engine like regular fuel, except there is lots of it, so turning off the ignition wont do anything, they stop when they are out of lubricating oil, as most engines do!

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

Who Better than yourself Marc?

You are a customer of the business, have experience with Bio, don't live too far away and have single minded enthusiasm in the Championing of any cause you belive in no matter what the opposition.

Maybe Robert or others could help you with some literature and web site references to give them as supporting material for their own research as well.

It certainly would be a great opportunity for you to make a practical and benificial contribution to the bio fuels cause which would no doubt benifit a lot of people in the long run.

I have already done my bit, technical talk, complete with donation of sample, see photo. I don't make my own fuel so I cannot offer an alternative nor a good sample of fuel. As for the tone of your post, it somehow sounds discordant.

Robert I agree that this wold be the arena of a group of biodiesel users/brewers.

Of course one would hope that the Australian biodiesel association would have some interest in this, and that sus scrofa domestica would have evolved the front extremities into proper wings at this stage.

C.Echidna, diesel injection mechanics work in a specialised area with very expensive equipment and in lab conditions when rebuilding pumps and injectors.

Most if not all of their training is subsidised by the handful of diesel injection component manufacturers.

The mainstream will have as only aim to restore an engine to as near as manufacturer's specifications as possible. Most have absolutely no training outside this area. However some do and specialise in diesel performance mostly to do with drag or marine racing.

I would compare this to a factory dealer mechanic. Ask a Holden dealer to change your factory filter to a high flow one or put extractors on your exhaust or a performance chip in your injection computer.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

Had another ineresting conversation with my local diesel repair shop. Discussing doing an "elsbett" kit with them which requires new injector parts to be installed and calibrated. Asking if they were interested (which they were) we discussed biodiesel further. The person I spoke to had the following attitudes.
1 there is good and bad biodiesel. He said some stank, made his eyes water, and stung his hands whilst working on injector pumps. He said other lots were great, did not have any smell or other bad characteristics.
2 Some new cars are not suited to Australia's diesel, and are having problems as it is not as good as what is sold overseas (especially europe) and are having problems as a result, not even biodiesel.
3 he said one guy had his IP done, and was back in three years with it completely cactus, requiring 1500 dollars of work. They have also seen "rubber balls" in injecor pumps where seals have disintergrated. there is no availble biodiesel for purchase within 400ks of here, so it is probably all home made.

[Cameron Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Cameron]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

A good point. This sort of thing must be done and must be done properly. Perhaps giving them a quantity of biodiesel (that meets spec) and a non-confrontational education session to let them feel that they've discovered it themselves. If they can stop standing on the rumours and official statements from OEMs and do some of their own research, then they would certainly become allies.
Of course, they would still see problems caused by bad biodiesel, as they would bad petrodiesel, but hopefully once educated, they would not simply blanket ban it.
Perhaps this could be one of the things that ABU could assist with. We'd need someone mechanically astute, so that these people could be addressed on equal standing.

I reckon the go would be to:
1. ABU to approach NRMA/government funding bodies to financially support a short competency based industry education and training program relating to biodiesel
2. secure the services of some biodiesel friendly diesel mechanic experts - IP specialists and others plus some professors from the Uni of NSW expert in oils and engine performance (we have an engine testing lab apparently!)
3. compile a list of all the industry bods that we might want to approach
4. organise some small group training seminars to be run out of here at UNSW
5. run small group training sessions
6. digital video record the sessions for later download and sharing
7. record and assess attitude changes of industry bods who attend
8. publicise the results to industry, media & government
9. have a party
10. identify and get on to next strategic project.

I am prepared to work on/co-ordinate this one. Who else from here would want to be part of a tight project team for this project?

If ABU agrees and gives me the go-ahead I will start to plan it out.

Cheers,
cameron

[Cameron Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Cameron]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

BUMP.

Guys I didn't intend that posting to be a discussion ender!

Is there anyone in ABU who would be keen to help with this project should it be given the go ahead by ABU?

People from ABU (ie members or wannabe members ...) do you think it is a good idea for a project or not? can I get some feedback please?

Cheers,
Cameron
UNSW

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

I support it and may be able to help get some ABU funding for it if we can get a decent gameplan and budget together for such a thing. Is anyone else interested in this issue? (I don't just mean interested in suggesting things, or saying "wouldn't it be nice if someone did this" - I mean actually agreeing to help).

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

How about an information kit that can be printed by members and distribted to their local diesel repairer? Speaking to the local one he said he had not seen any information regarding emissions or other studdies. Also perhaps some trouble shoting questions regarding people with their biodiesel. Ie did they perform a conversion on their oil (some people in the Auto industry think WVO is biodiesel) did they wash it, Can they have a sample to perhaps give to someone in the ABU to examine for unwashed/ poor conversion?)

I feel the diesel people want to help people with reliable motoring, perhaps the ABU can also be reference for people having trouble. (I think if we can get away from "stay away from biodiesel" to "go see these people" we may be on a winnner)

I will be happy to help the moment I get a few other things sorted for the ABU.

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

Very good idea Chris. The ABU may not have the resources to employ someone to go and talk to these people, but information kits and the like are certainly within our abilities.
Now, the only thing left is designing them. If anyone wants to contribute such a thing, please do!

[Amber Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Amber]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

If anyone wants to contribute such a thing, please do!

oh, yeah? I've got InDesign at home, (never used it...) so if someone wants to give me the data, I can probably get it into a publishable format...

We'll need to collate some good data in order to make a strong case for biodiesel anyway, so this would be a good place to start.

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

WARFA has an online brochure at http://www.shortcircuit.com.au/warfa/WARFAbrochure.pdf
Feel free to make use of the text if you feel that it can be used to advantage.
Tony

[ozboc Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close ozboc]

Re: Sydney Diesel Centre says stay away from BD

I have always said this -- and i always will say this - MECHANICS ARE JUST NEW PARTS FITTERS.

simple - if that doesnt fix the problem try fit another part - until it runs right , then present the customer with a massive bill for parts that were never needed.

If you have very good mechanical knowlege - quiz them ask them how they came about there diagnosis step by step - most will not know why the failure has occured they just kept changing parts till it fixed the problem .

Boc

I guess though a repair service will only see cars with problems, or problems that could be associated with with biodiesel regardless of cause. (somtimes I feel mechanics dont really car about why something has happened, and perhaps say what the customer might think is reasonable just to get on with the job)
I guess if you go into hospital and ask someone there about sport, they may say, "Dont do it, you should see some of the problems we see in here" because they dont see the benifits.
Just highlighting the statistical problem with information from a repair place.