2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

[Farm Boy Member Find all posts View Profile Close Farm Boy]

Hi folks

I have been running my 1997 rodeo 2.8l td rodeo on bio for quite a few years now. THis winter it has been hard starting but usually is the case in the cold.

of recent times it has blown a lot of grey/light blue smoke on starting and has been very hard to start. Will fire but die.

on starting in the morning it just just fires but then stops. after a few starting attempts it I can just get it to go but it is as rough as hell and blows an almight amount of grey/light blue smoke like it is unburnt diesel - the smoke last for ages until it is really warm. Once I take off it is sluggish for 5mins then runs like a dream. Starts fine thereafter until it gets cold.

On warmer days it seems to start better but still blows a stack of greyish smoke

I had my fuel injector seal done less than a year ago. I changed all my filters but no improvement.

Anyone have any ideas? My old man thinks the motor is getting too much fuel? Is this possible? Could it be air into the system?

Keen for any help. I tested the glow plugs and they were getting current - but havent inspected the globes yet.

hoping its an easy fix???

FB

[smithw Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close smithw]

Re: 2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

Sounds like glow plugs, you need to take them out and connect each one to a battery and make sure that it glows red hot at the end. if it glows in the middle or not at all replace it. Faulty glow plugs can make the glow timer go haywire, so check them first.
The other thing is maybe is your bio diesel, empty the tank and put some dino diesel in it and see what happens.

[Captaincademan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captaincademan]

Re: 2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

FB,

Working glow plugs will certainly assist for start. after start though it sounds like you are suffering from fuel starvation. I had a similar problem in my 1HZ a few years ago.

I bet you are getting heap of air in your system. check all connections. Does your fuel filter have a water trap underneath? if so check the little o-ring that is on the drain tap, as well as the o-ring between the trap and the filter (if there is one) the o-ring between the filter and the housing.

worth while checking the banjo nut/bolt at the fuel pump too.

If that doesnt solve it, go get some clear nylon hose the right internal diameter for your fuel system and install everywhere you can. dont throw your old hose out just yet. Can be bought from your trusty buy-the-world-in-one-trip-hardware store.

prime your system and get her running. any air leaks will be immediately traceable. There is no particular rush to take the nylon hose off, it will last a few months no problems, which will allow you plenty of time to troubleshoot across a variety of conditions.

depending on the age of your fuel lines, it may be worth purchasing some new methanol resistant fuel hose for the long term. do a search for that subject on this forum, it has been discussed at length several times.

let us know how you go.

[Qwarla Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qwarla]

Re: 2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

99.99% sure that's a glow plug problem.
Won't start cold but once hot starts like normal.

First check there is power to the glow plug rail, if there is:-

Rip out the plugs and test them. Chuck the stuffed ones and replace em.

Should fix the problem.

[Farm Boy Member Find all posts View Profile Close Farm Boy]

Re: 2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

thanks for your suggestions.

I examined the glow plugs and they were all working fine but i replaced 2 anyway. THe problem is still there though.

There is a definite flat spot (missing heaps) when I rev the engine. When this flat spot is hit that is when the grey smoke pours out. It also pours out when idling when first starting up.

I guess the problem isnt just the starting now its also the lack of power and missing. It just seems like on startup it is flooded with heaps of fuel.

Where should I look next? Is it possible an injector has gone and fuel is pouring in? The motor is only 100k old, inj pump has had new seal last year. Dont think air is the problem as the primer pump is rock hard.

The car itself runs okay in general- although i have noticed a very fast tapping noise that gets louder the faster I go. Dont know if I am just being more observant now or it is a new sound.

Hopefully not a major problem?
Cheers
FB

[Captaincademan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captaincademan]

Re: 2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

FB,

It could still be air. Like I said I had a similar problem, which was air leaking into the fuel line. I had a flat spot too, right at 2500 rpm. below this was fine, and if it could climb above it was fine, but 2500 was the killer. right in the middle of the rev range. It appears that with bio being a little more viscous, it increases the likely hood of air leaks, and at a particular vaccum pressure, will cause more air leaks.

The funny thing is that I need to chase another really tiny leak again which is causing my car to smoke a little on the highway right on 100 km/hr. guess what RPM this equates to in top gear? 2500. at 95 no smoke and at 105 no smoke.

go looking for air leaks.

[ocsum Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ocsum]

Re: 2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

"Where should I look next? Is it possible an injector has gone and fuel is pouring in? The motor is only 100k old, inj pump has had new seal last year. Dont think air is the problem as the primer pump is rock hard. " Quote

I think if you had an injector pouring in or leaking then you may leave your engine open to hydrolock .Get you injector spray pattern checked is the only way to rule injectors out,I believe.
It sounds like air still,like you have an air lock,try the ol' clear hose next to the injector pump trick and track back from there.

Good Luck
Pete

[250downunder Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close 250downunder]

Re: 2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

Grey smoke on start is usually unburnt fuel - often the result of bad glow plugs during cold starts. The other necessity for combustion is compression; low compression will not achieve combustion of the injected fuel and will result in grey smoke. If all else fails, check the compression.

[Johnnojack Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johnnojack]

Re: 2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

Injectors.

[constablechris Member Find all posts View Profile Close constablechris]

Re: 2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

http://www.biofuelsforum.com/using_b...y_filters.html

Have a read of this as well. It may help.

But it sounds like air Maybe the IP is allowing fuel to draining back to the tank as the car sits, then as you turn the motor over, it pumps a bit of fuel in, the car starts and the air causes the smoke? five minutes later all the air is purged and it runs good. Mine was doing that for a while and I had to replace the fuel solenoide near the tank. I also worked through every joint and fuel line to get rid of any leaks. Eventually changed my filter type and all is good in my world. I had flat spots too for a while.

I dont think your injectors are stuffed. They dont in my mind produce those symptoms.
Hope it helps

Chris

[Farm Boy Member Find all posts View Profile Close Farm Boy]

Re: 2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

hi guys
have an update on the rodeo. checked the glowplugs all ok. Took out the injectors and got them done and then put them back.

Problem is unfortunately still there so, not sure what the problem might be. Any suggestions from this point?

Have some more info on the trouble I am having
- cold start will miss and shake and blow lots of bluish grey smoke and struggles to get over 300rpms. Will get up to 1000 rpms eventually but still blow smoke and miss but not so bad
- If i take it for a run the car drives pretty good and will not blow the much smoke at all when warm. However it does miss slightly on idle and i have noticed that revving at idle around the 1500 rpm mark produces puffs of grey bluish smoke even when warm and also it misses slightly and shakes a little at this rpm. Over 1500 rpms and up she is absolutely fine.
- If I turn the rodeo off and leave for a short while (goes cool) - the cold start problems return - seems much worse

any thoughts? I am thinking the fuel pump or is it something else?
Some helpful suggestions from people thanks- could it possibly be air coming in from somewhere? Would this fit the above symptoms.

trying to work out the next step.....

Cheers
FB

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: 2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

Air leaking into fuel system is the most likely cause.

This has been suggested before but you didn't seem to act on this advice.

Regards,
Tony

[timorcoco Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close timorcoco]

Re: 2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

Check that you have power to the Cold Start Device ( when engine is cold , it's controlled by a temp. sensor ). This is the gadget sticking out from rear of injector pump above injector fuel pipes , has a green rubber boot where wiring enters. It electromagnetically controls injection timing/advance for "richer" fuelling at cold.
The injection advance / retard mechanism inside the pump must freely move according to engine revs. It can get stuck or glued up with fats and glycerine from poorly reacted/washed/wet biodiesel . Particularly in cold ambient temps. Engine can appear to be suffering fuel starving even when warm if the advance/retard mechanism is stuck , and sometimes permanent 12 volts hotwired to cold start device can "cure" it .

When the injection timing mechanism is stuck , engine is very sluggish/gutless/smokey when cold starting - maybe improves as everything warms up.

Try a heavy dose of fuel condtioner/algaecide such as Dieselpower, drive hard for a while . Use this stuff at normal dose rate ( 1ml/L ) regularly.
If this fails , and you dont find any other simple fix , you'll need the pump dismantled and probably rebuilt - $800 !!!

Good luck

[bedford Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close bedford]

Re: 2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

Try unhooking the fuel line off the water seperator that comes from the tank and take the fuel line off the fuel filter that comes from the fuel seperator and put the fuel line from the tank onto the fuel filter[in other words eliminate the water seperator/primer]as the primer can have a small hole in it and you not being able to see it and test drive,

[Johnnojack Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johnnojack]

Re: 2.8l TD rodeo problem - help needed

hi guys
have an update on the rodeo. checked the glowplugs all ok. Took out the injectors and got them done and then put them back.

Problem is unfortunately still there so, not sure what the problem might be. Any suggestions from this point?

Have some more info on the trouble I am having
- cold start will miss and shake and blow lots of bluish grey smoke and struggles to get over 300rpms. Will get up to 1000 rpms eventually but still blow smoke and miss but not so bad
- If i take it for a run the car drives pretty good and will not blow the much smoke at all when warm. However it does miss slightly on idle and i have noticed that revving at idle around the 1500 rpm mark produces puffs of grey bluish smoke even when warm and also it misses slightly and shakes a little at this rpm. Over 1500 rpms and up she is absolutely fine.
- If I turn the rodeo off and leave for a short while (goes cool) - the cold start problems return - seems much worse

any thoughts? I am thinking the fuel pump or is it something else?
Some helpful suggestions from people thanks- could it possibly be air coming in from somewhere? Would this fit the above symptoms.

trying to work out the next step.....

Cheers
FB

From this information, rough idle when warm, smooths out when revving up, it indicates a leaking valve or 2. Same symptoms indicate same problem with petrol or diesel engines.
Start it from cold and keep it going for a minute at say 1000rpm, then stop it and check which injectors are hot. Cold ones will indicate the cylinder with a crook valve. Do a compression test to confirm.