Engine Flush?

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: Engine Flush?

Congratulations on the cleanliness of your sump.

However I suspect that such state is simply due to a design feature that allows older Merc to have the sump removed engine on, and so has been removed many times to be cleaned. That sump has come off a myriad of times and has been cleaned every time. Most modern cars and trucks would require the engine to be pulled out of the vehicle in order to do such operation.

I have dismantled hundreds of diesel engines that came from ships, generator's plants, and mining trucks with strict and meticulous maintenance schedules who's sump had one and two inch thick sludge deposits.

Sludge exists is not a myth and you can remove it by scraping it out of your sump if it is practical to do so, or you can minimise its formation by flushing out the soft portion of it with a good sump flush.

One can also prevent its formation by adhering to frequent oil changes number one.
Number two, using the appropriate engine oil for your engine. By the way oil for petrol engines in a diesel engine is not appropriate.
Number three, using the best filter possible.
Number four, keeping the cooling system in perfect condition, sludge is the result of overheating the oil, so a temperature gage for the oil and if necessary an additional oil cooler will prevent oil overheating. By the way, your water temperature gage will not show oil overheating for a very long time if at all.

[Guest Close David]

Re: Engine Flush?

However I suspect that such state is simply due to a design feature that allows older Merc to have the sump removed engine on, and so has been removed many times to be cleaned. That sump has come off a myriad of times and has been cleaned every time.

Yes, I'm sure that is what the people servicing the car must have done and this explains things perfectly now you point it out. It would have never occoured to me that they would have done that in a million years. Thanks for the explaination. They probably pulled the rocker cover off as well and cleaned all the valve gear while they were at it because that was just as clean.
They must must have used a shipload of cotton buds and tooth brushes to get in all those nooks and crannies!

This was extremely dilligent of the various mechanics that worked on the car as the handbook says nothing about removing the oil pan and cleaning out the sludge. Perhaps Mercedes Benz issued a " Sludge removal" service Bulletin update to all the non Benz mechanics that have serviced the car ??

Certainly the sump comes off with relative ease, but how the heck you figure they got the crank out to clean it seeing you can only get to a couple of the big end caps through the oil pan??? Did you notice how nice and clean they made the crank and big end caps as well? Certainly a job well done.
I don't spose getting the crank and con rods out, would have been nearly the bastard of a job putting them all back in and torqueing up the big end caps would have been!
That must have taken some time and Skill! I'd have thought it would have just been easier to pull the engine out for its routine sludge removal but obviously they know a lot more about pulling cranks out of engines with them still in the car than I do!

I'm a bit surprised the owner of the car didn't question why he was getting charged like $900 in labour costs for an oil change?
The person I bought the car off had owned it for 3 years. She must have been one (formerly) cashed up uni student.

I am keen to maintain my engine in the good, clean condition it is in so I think I'll ring Mercedes Benz on Monday and ask how much they charge to remove the sludge from the oil pan and what the reccomended service interval is that sludge removal should be done?

[Jacka Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jacka]

Re: Engine Flush?

Comeon guys let's not get into personal's This place is a really good place generally and great for information. If this thread continues down this track it will require it is closed so that it stops.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Engine Flush?

Hello Marc1
Most motor oil is suitable for use in both petrol and diesel engines.
The American Petroleum Institute (API) Oil Classifications for both Petrol and diesel use will typically printed on the oil container.
The S Classification is for Petrol engines and the C Classification is for diesel engines
As well, many manufacturers give motor oil their own Rating.
The Motor oil that I use in my Diesel engine has an API classification SL/CF, SL being the Petrol Engine Classification and CF being the Diesel Engine Cassification. More importantly, it is listed on the Mercedes Benze sheet 229.1 approved oils

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: Engine Flush?

Perhaps it is pertinent to remember that engines are all different, and for the same engine, what is required from it is different with each user.

My Lister generator operating at 800 rpm with a compression rate of 16:1 and a very constant load would operate thousands of hours with a diet of pure SAE 30 motor oil with no additives. My Toyota Surf 3L turbo would probably last only a few weeks with such oil if I drive it hard.
However if I derate the same engine, take the turbo out and drive it like my grandma once a week from home to church and back, it will probably be OK and have no sludge in the sump.

Oil manufacturers must cater for a variety of engines and a variety of uses and for that they must add additives specific for each task.
One can certainly use non diesel specific oil in a diesel engine and take the risk associated with such choice.... but you would wonder why.

Cost cannot be the reason since Penrite HPR diesel for example, one of the best small diesel engine oil in the market, costs just about the same as any other fancy petrol engine oil. So what other reason can there be? To prove a point? Perhaps all oils are the same therefore we can prove manufacturers to be crooks and feeding us just marketing gimmicks?

I have seen my share of engine failure due to inappropriate oil for the task required from that engine, plus the tilting at the windmills of manufacturers' conspiracies is a very boring activity.

If it's my engine I use the best possible oil in the market at the shortest possible change interval, but hey, that's me, others are free to test the odds at their own convenience and risk.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Engine Flush?

Hello Marc1

If you wish to keep your warrenty in effect, it is more pertenant to use an oil that is approved by the Manufacturer.

[Rodger T Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Rodger T]

Re: Engine Flush?

Its an interesting thread alright you aussie Bio-Diesel guys are definatly passionate about you engines.I note most of you keep refering to bottles of product poured in with the lube oil to "Flush" an engine, Nulon ,Wynns
Snapon have been mentioned as well as completly weird home fixs like kero or diesel mixtures. Again i would like to enlighten you to a dynamic flush the flush fluid is not 0-20w its a patented chemical brew used with a
computer control of the engine while its running. We are not only flushing to rid engines of "Black Death Sludge" it removes all built up contaminants,
no flush fluid is left in the engine as it is purged out with a neutralising fluid cycle after the flush. No one has commented regarding oil annalysis do you change on a time or distance travelled ? does bio fuel degrade your oils quicker than petroleum diesel? Are there higher acid counts in your lube oils? Will bio fuel leave undesirable deposits in your lube oil? or will it eat the additive package from your oils ? Yea David good clean engine don't bother with a flush this year. Would appreciate some feed back on my website please Engine Dialysis Flush S.I.

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: Engine Flush?

Warranty?
You seriously want to bring warranty in the equation on a forum that promotes the use of backyard made fuel, manufactured from waste, produced in precarious home made equipment, not to mention stored in ways that would make insurance companies shudder?
I love your sense of humor.

And yes you would of course as a minimum requirement, use at least what the manufacturer recommends or better, and the same with oil exchange frequency. So the idea of "frequent change of cheap oil and filter" being better than extended intervals of expensive oil is not the appropriate choice of alternatives.
I say best oil and best filter at shortest possible intervals.
I don't think there is a manufacturer that will ever void a warranty for that.
They certainly would if they knew you cook your own fuel.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Engine Flush?

Hello Marc1
I can not recall saying I was using a backyard made fuel, manufactured from waste, produced in precarious home made equipment in the car in question.
Yes, I do wish to keep my warranty in force.
One of the warranty requirements is that the oil is changed every 10,000km and the oil used must meet Mercedes Benz Spec 229.1 or 229.3 There is no requirement as to how my insurance company should feel or even if I should have home insurance.
The oil I use Meets Mercedes Benz 229.1. I Purchase the Oil and filter on the day I change my oil. I have dated Printed receipts that show that I have purchased this oil and an oil filter for the Mercedes engine and I have written the car's mileage on these receipts.

I can not find Penrite HPR on any Mercedes list of approved motor oil.
In 2 years, when my warranty runs out I might change to it If I remember.
Perhaps in 2 years time you could remind me.

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: Engine Flush?

I can not find Penrite HPR on any Mercedes list of approved motor oil.

This is the answer given to me to a similar question I put to Penrite Oil Co:

Hello Marc,

Correct, we are not listed by Mercedes Benz nor will we ever as the formalized approval process is far too costly for us.

What we do when setting our formulations, is ensure that the technology we use is capable of being approved or the technology supplier has the technology approved under other brands. As an example our SIN Engine Oil 0 to 10 technology carries MB 228.3 approvals under other brands or what is known as a "blanket approval" for a technology.

As such, we will stand by the use of our products when used as recommended during the warranty period.

Best regards,
Tony Lawton
Technical Manager
Penrite Oil Company
Ph 61 3 9801 0877
Direct 61 3 8805 4426
Fax 61 3 9801 0977

It appears that approvals are more political/commercial then technical.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Engine Flush?

Hello Marc1, Curiouser and curiouser!

After you post yesterday I visited the Penrite Australia website and looked for the oil they recommend for my car, a 2006 SsangYong Diesel.
They recommend I useHPR Diesel 15 which according to them meets Mercedes 229.3
Apparently, according to what you have said, it is not listed on the MB 229.3 sheet and If I used it and had a problem, SsangYong would be within their rights to refuse to honorthe warranty because I had used an oil not on their list.
I would then have to contact Penrite to see if they would fix my car.

I think I will stick with the oils on the "Official" list.