1990 HiAce/Hilux fuel pumps

[tbird650 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tbird650]

Re: 1990 HiAce/Hilux fuel pumps

Tony

Thanks for the comments re my solution/s. When I first posted the #5 solution some weeks back, it seemed there was very little interest in the concept..... or perhaps it wasn't fully understood?

I have an issue with this option. The fuel should be filtered before adding to the tank.

The fuel IS filtered as it's added to the tank...... And at 1 micron!

This filtration should be finer than the vehicle main fuel filter.

This filtration is finer than any onboard diesel vehicle's filter. My understanding is diesel filters are typically 5 or 10 micron.

The vehicle main fuel filter should be to stop contaminants (created in or added to the tank, from reaching the IP.

Is goes without saying that no contaminant should reach the IP. I think confusion has arisen here.
I use a fresh, transparent, clean, plastic fuel tank for the vege. It can't rust or react with water/moisture. The only way for foreign matter can get in is via the 1 micron filter!

I never considered using the vehicles existing tank with all the years of crud it may have.

All I have done is to move the point of filtration!....and ensuring that the sealed fuel tank cannot become contaminated.

I have to say, this decision, to go against mainstream orthodox thinking took some courage. I wrestled for months and months with on board/on demand filtration............. till finally one day I "spat the dummy" .......... and thought......... there must be a better way, there must be!!

[gonzalo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gonzalo]

Re: 1990 HiAce/Hilux fuel pumps

I have EXACTLY this problem. Air leak only in veggy mode (no loop on return line) but not in Diesel mode. Problem seems worse once the engine is hot. It is not the filter, it is not the HE, it is not the 3 way valve, it is not the main tank.......3 weeks now without success. Dont´know what else I can check, so I will probably end up fitting a lift pump at the back to push the oil rather than having the IP sucking it all the way.

Cheers
gonzalo

[tbird650 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tbird650]

Re: 1990 HiAce/Hilux fuel pumps

gonzalo

Please supply more information on your set up so forum readers can comment on your problem.

Points to include are:

Filter type, size, make/model. (is it used for both fuels?)
Fuel line size and material type.
Which tank is the vege in?...original or additional tank?
Is filter & fuel lines heated?
What's your current, average ambient air temperature?
What's the injector pump type....rotary with vane lift pump?
Any 12v vege heater/s?
What vege type are you using? Always been the same?

Answer as many as you can.

Hoping we can help.

P.S. I agree with Captain Echidna in that it sounds like a blockage or restriction. This would cause high vacuum, which in turn causes air leaks.

[gonzalo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gonzalo]

Re: 1990 HiAce/Hilux fuel pumps

Hello Tbird650,

Here is some info:

The car is a Peugeot 205 from 1996. I have installed an additional tank in the boot. This one is for diesel only. The main tank stores 100% waste veggy oil. This oil has been filtered at home with thick jeans, but I am not sure what kind of rating these would have. It takes no less than 24h to filter 30 litres, so I assume the filtering is fine. The oil has been settling for 2 weeks before filtering.

The 2 fuel lines meet at the "entry solenoid valve". Before this the diesel fuel has been filtered by the stock filter. The oil has only been prefiltered by the main tank filter, which must be around 200 micron or so. The oil has also gone through the manual primer (just a rubber ball with an antireturn valve).

After the valve either fuel goes through the heat exchanger, a piece of cooper pipe installed in the manifold going from the cylinder head to the radiator. Inside there is another cooper pipe with a spiral shape. I home made this, so I was suspicious of it, but I isolated it and it does not leak.
The spiral is of a single piece. I mean, the bits sticking out of the main tube belong to the same piece of pipe.

After the HE there is another filter (Bosch 100 micron) and after this we arrive to the IP.

For the return I have installed another solenoid valve to select the tank I want the fuel to return to. I have no loop for any of the circuits.

The two valves are operated independently from the cabin. There is a significant amount of fuel between the valves, so simultaneous switching would send a lot of fuel to the wrong tank.

When in veggy mode, I can see small bubbles arriving to the Bosch filter. If I switch from veggy to diesel, the bubbles disappear.

If I connect the veggy line (including the primer) directly to the filter, no bubbles. Add to this the HE and no bubbles. Add to this the solenoid and I get bubbles.

Easy? Not so easy, because the diesel fuel also uses this valve and I get no bubbles. A matter of excessive vacum with veggie, as Captain suggested? Probably. Spent last night dismantling the valve and turning every single connection air tight, paranoid style, this is.

I am about to install it back into the car and see what happens.


The rest of the system has been checked twice or three times. The prefilter in the main tank is new, all fuel lines are new (specific for fuel, up to 2 bar it says on one side, 6mm), the diesel filter is new too just in case and all connections are secured with quality clamps (the ones that don´t puncture the lines).
The diesel filter (stock) is heated at the base. The Bosch filter is heated by the fuel itself, which must be flowing at around 80 or 90 degrees.
Current ambiente temp is 15 degrees C.
My pump is rotary Bosch with integrated lift pump.
No electrical heating.
The veggy I am using has always been the same. Is is WVO I collent from a recycling center. I collect it from a 1000 litre container, so it is very unlikely that its composition would vary much from one month to another.

I will let you know how I go. Any ideas will be welcome.

Thanks for your comments
gonzalo

gonzalo

Please supply more information on your set up so forum readers can comment on your problem.

Points to include are:

Filter type, size, make/model. (is it used for both fuels?)
Fuel line size and material type.
Which tank is the vege in?...original or additional tank?
Is filter & fuel lines heated?
What's your current, average ambient air temperature?
What's the injector pump type....rotary with vane lift pump?
Any 12v vege heater/s?
What vege type are you using? Always been the same?

Answer as many as you can.

Hoping we can help.

P.S. I agree with Captain Echidna in that it sounds like a blockage or restriction. This would cause high vacuum, which in turn causes air leaks.

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: 1990 HiAce/Hilux fuel pumps

Hello Tbird650,

Here is some info:

The car is a Peugeot 205 from 1996. I have installed an additional tank in the boot. This one is for diesel only. The main tank stores 100% waste veggy oil. This oil has been filtered at home with thick jeans, but I am not sure what kind of rating these would have. It takes no less than 24h to filter 30 litres, so I assume the filtering is fine. The oil has been settling for 2 weeks before filtering.

The 2 fuel lines meet at the "entry solenoid valve". Before this the diesel fuel has been filtered by the stock filter. The oil has only been prefiltered by the main tank filter, which must be around 200 micron or so. The oil has also gone through the manual primer (just a rubber ball with an antireturn valve).

After the valve either fuel goes through the heat exchanger, a piece of cooper pipe installed in the manifold going from the cylinder head to the radiator.

Does this HE get hot before the top radiator hose gets hot? If not, then use the heater coolant to source the coolant for your HE.

Inside there is another cooper pipe with a spiral shape. I home made this, so I was suspicious of it, but I isolated it and it does not leak.
The spiral is of a single piece. I mean, the bits sticking out of the main tube belong to the same piece of pipe.

After the HE there is another filter (Bosch 100 micron) and after this we arrive to the IP.

For the return I have installed another solenoid valve to select the tank I want the fuel to return to. I have no loop for any of the circuits.

The two valves are operated independently from the cabin. There is a significant amount of fuel between the valves, so simultaneous switching would send a lot of fuel to the wrong tank.

When in veggy mode, I can see small bubbles arriving to the Bosch filter. If I switch from veggy to diesel, the bubbles disappear.

If I connect the veggy line (including the primer) directly to the filter, no bubbles. Add to this the HE and no bubbles. Add to this the solenoid and I get bubbles.

Easy? Not so easy, because the diesel fuel also uses this valve and I get no bubbles. A matter of excessive vacum with veggie, as Captain suggested? Probably. Spent last night dismantling the valve and turning every single connection air tight, paranoid style, this is.

I am about to install it back into the car and see what happens.

Try swapping the fuel lines to the valve so that the veggie uses the diesel ports - re-label the switch so there is no confusion. see if the veggie still gets bubbles.

The rest of the system has been checked twice or three times. The prefilter in the main tank is new, all fuel lines are new (specific for fuel, up to 2 bar it says on one side, 6mm), the diesel filter is new too just in case and all connections are secured with quality clamps (the ones that don´t puncture the lines).
The diesel filter (stock) is heated at the base. The Bosch filter is heated by the fuel itself, which must be flowing at around 80 or 90 degrees.

Please install a temperature probe to confirm these temperatures during the driving conditions giving the symptoms.

Current ambiente temp is 15 degrees C.
My pump is rotary Bosch with integrated lift pump.
No electrical heating.
The veggy I am using has always been the same. Is is WVO I collent from a recycling center. I collect it from a 1000 litre container, so it is very unlikely that its composition would vary much from one month to another.

So anyone could put any oil into the drum? You take from the drum, but you do not know what goes into the drum. Have you tested for water in the oil?

I will let you know how I go. Any ideas will be welcome.

Thanks for your comments
gonzalo

I support the installation of a fuel vacuum gauge, located at the IP inlet and routed to the dash. This will assist you in diagnosing faults such as this one.

Tony

[gonzalo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gonzalo]

Re: 1990 HiAce/Hilux fuel pumps

Thanks for the tips, Tony. I will try them.

For the time being I have re-installed the solenoid valve after sealing all the connections with teflon and nural 27. After a long run I have noticed that the car is running fine now. However, after opening the bonet I saw that there are still a few tiny bubbles going through the Bosch filter. Not sure where they are coming from, but since the car is running fine now, I will pretend I have not seen them.
If I keep the engine idling for a minute or two the bubbles disappear totally.

Following your suggestion, next modification will be to relocate the HE so that it receives water for the heating, which has no thermostat.
At the moment I have to wait until the thermostat opens (at 83 degrees), before I can switch to veggy.

Cheers
gonzalo

[gonzalo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gonzalo]

Re: 1990 HiAce/Hilux fuel pumps

Hello again,

Just a brief update.

When I thought the problem had been fixed by sealing the solenoid valve with Nural 27, the fuel starvation came back after a long run (50km more or less). I swapped the veggy and diesel lines at the valve, as Tony suggested, also adding a bit of transparent tube in the diesel line. Started the car and it has been working excellent since then. The interesting bit is that as soon as I switched to diesel, small bubbles appeared in the transparent line before the valve. This means that the leak has always been in the diesel line, not in the veggy line as I thought. What made me believe this was the fact that the car was running ok in diesel mode, but obviously I was not driving far enough on diesel to starve the engine.
This also means that air bubbles can get through the valve even if the port is "closed".

I still need to find and fix the leak, but now I know what´s going on and feel much happier.

Thanks a lot for your help
gonzalo

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: 1990 HiAce/Hilux fuel pumps

, but now I know what´s going on and feel much happier.

Nice to know things are getting better. After having converted 2 cars before, things get better from where you are, and when it goes properly you will be estatic. I know this because I am doing the third car, and things arent quite looking up yet (although the car is back running on diesel, so its a positive I guess)

[gonzalo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gonzalo]

Re: 1990 HiAce/Hilux fuel pumps

I wish you finish that third conversion successfully, Chris.

Nice to know things are getting better. After having converted 2 cars before, things get better from where you are, and when it goes properly you will be estatic. I know this because I am doing the third car, and things arent quite looking up yet (although the car is back running on diesel, so its a positive I guess)