The prefect prefilter for WVO???

[W123 x 2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close W123 x 2]

Hi,

This post follows on from the unconventional filter material. I vote the humble Woolies/Coles 'green' shopping bag as the perfect prefilter for WVO.

It costs one dollar!
Is available almost everywhere
Is made of 100% non woven polypropylene
Is generously sized 300 long x 200 wide x 200 deep (12 litres)
Is reinforced and designed to take heavy weights
Has handles
These just reach from side to side of a 205 litre drum
and two bags fit side by side in the drum.

For a dollar, it doesn't get any better than this.

If you have one of those drums with the removable lid, it sits on top whilst filtering keeping dust etc. out.

Not sure of the micron rating but I'll then filtered oil though a 25 and then 5 micron filter and see what residue remains. A guess says fairly low, around 50 micron?

I should have thought of this earlier!

Cheers, Michael

[Guest Close David]

Re: The prefect prefilter for WVO???

I would say that you would be able to wash these bags out a good many times as well and be able to reuse them.

As for the most perfect prefilter, I suggest that settling is still the best option. There is no work involved, you don't need any type of filter media and there is no mess either!
I have found that oil settled for 3-4 weeks is very clear and only requires final filtration before use.

The bags may be very handy if someone wanted to filter the tin bottom dwelling dregs and crispy bits to get every last drop of oil but I believe this is where most of the nasties in oil reside so I just leave the last litre or 2 depending on what the oil is like. When I have emptied all the tins in a batch, I collect all the dregs into 3-4 tins and then get rid of them in the garbage or in a nearby dumpster when it is put out for collection.

For those that prefer to prefilter, I think these bags may be a good option and they could also possibly be lined with some other material for finer filtration while still presenting a good surface area and support for the other filter medium.

[W123 x 2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close W123 x 2]

Re: The prefect prefilter for WVO???

Agreed David, they could be washed several times but they would progressively become coarser and let more through.

Settling is in addition to the prefilter for me as my greasy spoon supplies my oil in 20 litre drums complete with all the dead bits. I pick them up and pour straight into my pre filter in a 205 litre drum. From there it is pumped to the settling tank, one of two home heating oil tanks. This settles for several weeks. Then the wvo is pumped through a 25 micron followed by a 5 micron 10 inch water (sediment) filter in clear housings to remove any particulate. Immediately (in series) after the particulate filters is a Racor 1000 FG 10 micron aquablock filter to remove anything I've missed and into the drums. From there the oil goes into the tank or 20 drums where the ulp is added.

The water filter elements are cheap, around $2 in bulk, and saves the Racor elements which range from $21 to $29 depending on where and quantity. The Racor aquablock really is only there for water and I know it's a bit of overkill given the settling, but I don't want to rebuild anything I could have prevented.

This is my umpteenth version of filtering and settling. Although it sounds complicated there really is only a few simple steps:
pick up oil
prefilter
transfer to settling tanks
pump to car or drums
add blending (thinning) agent.

This seems to work well at the moment but I'm always looking for a better way. If I pump from dump bins my oil varies significantly and pre filtering works for me. Both settling drums have a water / sediment drain at the lowest point which I periodically drain off observing the dregs for quality.

Cheers, Michael

[Gen-Erix Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gen-Erix]

Re: The prefect prefilter for WVO???

what kind of bag are you talking about?
(ive never heard of it before)

do you have a picture?

[W123 x 2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close W123 x 2]

Re: The prefect prefilter for WVO???

Hi Gen-Erix,

They are reusable shopping bags that are designed to replace the plastic ones supermarkets use. Available here in Oz as a waste reduction measure but also available at many retailers as promo bags Simple open top bag 100% polyprop.

Am using two as I write this prefiltering waste cotton seed oil. Ambient temp 20 degrees C and flowing nicely. Seems to be the answer - for me at least.

Sorry can't do pics as I am technologically challenged Perhaps some else might help??

cheers, Michael

[Guest Close David]

Re: The prefect prefilter for WVO???

Hi Micheal,

I think we have all gone through many filtering methods and setups, I know I certainly have!

Like you, I collect my oil in the 20L tins with all the dead bits as well. I also used to pre filter but I found if I just pump the good oil off the top, all I needed to do was settle it a bit and then final filter it. I was pumping off the top and prefiltering but I found as long as I was a bit careful with the pumping, the amount of bits I got in the pre filter wasn't worth the trouble.

The main thing that can be trouble for me is not so much the bits, but the fats. After I get the good oil out of the tins, I pump the fat out to give to a BioDiesel producing friend and the rubbish and crunchy bits go into another rubbish tin.

I have also just dumped the lot into a 200L drum and then settled and pumped down progressively and that worked too but I didn't really like putting all the rubbish in when I could remove it in the first place. There is probably a lot less mucking round and good oil wastage by doing it all in one hit though.

I'm looking forward to my next filtering setup which will be to use a 250L hot water tank inverted that I can drain from the bottom ( which I intend to do frequently rather than just in one hit) and put the good oil straight through a water filter and into a drum ready for the vehicle. In order to get maximum oil from this I will seperate the good oil from the tins as much as possible by pumping from the top to start with so the rubbish in the tank is minimal.

How do you find the water filters? are there any little annoyances or problems with them? How much oil do you average through them before you have to chuck them? I like the concept of the water filters as all the oil is sealed so there will be minimal spills and drips and the oil can be pumped for greater flow if nessassary.

[W123 x 2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close W123 x 2]

Re: The prefect prefilter for WVO???

Hi David,

Good points of the 10 inch water filters;
The clear housing means I can see what's going on and when they look dirty I change them. The flows rates still seem good but they look bad so they get changed.
Reasonably large surface area and good flow rates and 1 inch plastic irrigation connectors fit.
Filter cartridges available at most hardware shops if pushed, but cheaper by half on ebay, many different micron ratings for sediment filters too - 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 50 micron
They can be pressurized to 80 psi but I draw through mine to the pump.

The bad points? Only one really, I wish the filters were top loading and less messy to change - there not really messy but could be better. Hard to unscrew the filter and not spill any. I'm told the O ring seal will give out with wvo, but this hasn't happened yet. They have an air bleed valve at the top which has a rubber seal which will probably fail at some stage - but so far so good.

I get approx 500 litres out of the 25 micron but only half that from the 5. I change them probably before I need to and the volume could improve if I didn't rush the process. I figure at $3 average per 500 litres I can't complain. Since using the sediment filters I haven't changed the Racor unit (2000 litres approx and counting). I credit settling with the filter longevity more than the prefiltering.

I'm planning at trip to Adelaide next school break, taking the kids and towing a van. The goal is to have the Patrol running a blend by then and have a mobile filtration station on board. We'll see how we go.

Cheers, Michael

[Guest Close David]

Re: The prefect prefilter for WVO???

Thanks for the info Micheal. The water filters sound good and I think the element changing thing is something I could learn to live with.

I am thinking of taking a vegie fueled trip north next Christmas. I was planning on carrying half the fuel up and getting some friends to collect some oil for me in advance for the return trip back.

Do you have any plans for your onboard filtering system setup and how are you intending to collect your oil?

[W123 x 2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close W123 x 2]

Re: The prefect prefilter for WVO???

Hi David,

No fixed design in mind yet, probably similar to the Golden Fuels unit on Youtube based around the Racor 1000 aquablock filter and a 12 volt pump. In a self contained box with hoses etc. Any and all suggestions for a 12 volt pump would be appreciated.

The Patrol tank is 130 litres which when towing a van is good for 800 k's. I'll carry another 100 litres or so and that will get me to Adelaide without having to refuel. In Adelaide I'll take my chances at the take aways and see how I go.

cheers, Michael

[Alga Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Alga]

Re: The prefect prefilter for WVO???

I've tried many ways to filter my oil and have boiled it down to two methods, as I seem to have two types of oil. One type comes from Indian restaurants and is black, very thin and when settled only has solids on the bottom. First I filter it to remove solids, then filter it through a T shirt then through a 5 micron filter bag. From there it goes straight into the tank with 15% ULP and sometimes without ULP and works fine.
The other oil which is mainly cotton seed and canola I pour straight into a 200 lt drum through a solids filter, which I've put a pyramid type bottom on with a gate valve. There it settles for a week and I drain the gunk out, filter the oil as it comes out through the old t shirt and again through the 5 micron bag. The gunk I put into my 200 litre Galvanised heating drum which lays on its side and has a hole cut into it and a drain tap or gate valve, (depending on the quantity I'm making) and I make biodiesel with it. Presently I heat it with gas, but am building a brick wood fired one.

I've been trying top get someone to make me a 330lt fuel tank for the back of my Triton twin cab, but so far no luck. So I have bought a 300lt inflatable marine fuel tank and am setting it up in the ute to use. What it means is I will have a staring tank (original) of 70lt and a 300 lt tank with blend or straight VO. That's way I can take out the inflatable tank when I'm only doing short trips of less then 500klms and have more room in the ute.

My mechanic mate who is an antique engine buff, runs all his engines on SVO and says he's never had any trouble with coking of the injectors. His idea is to drive the vehicle at full revs for a couple of minute before shutting down or changing back to dino or bio, that way he says all the build up is blown away. He also says that because I have a turbo, I shouldn't have any problems because of the increased pressures in the cylinders. But I always run it to top revs in a lower gear before shutting it down and it seems to work for me, about 1500 klms on SVO blend so far without hicc ups.

Here hopefully is a photo of my primitive filter system, you can see the sock filter sitting in the paint tin with its botom cut out and hanging from the filter drum stand

Well no photo, I haven't got a clue how to up load it using a url, as I don't have on I don' think, can anyone help

[W123 x 2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close W123 x 2]

Re: The prefect prefilter for WVO???

Alga, how's the twin tub spin filter set up working? I haven't had time to get one organised yet.

I like the 300 litre collapsible fuel tank idea, I should make to Adelaide and back without refuelling, how much did it cost? Being land locked they are expensive around here - might try evilbay.

Shopping bag update. After approx. 50 litres per bag they get real slow with cold oil - no surprises and suggests they are doing their job.

cheers, Michael

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: The prefect prefilter for WVO???

pity we cant tee up with macdonalds on a national level to make available their old oil. Even at 80c a liter filtered would be good?

My current main reason to do veggy is environment, and would be happy to pay for it oil on the road if 1) it was availible, and 2) it was filtered.

Of course their image would need protecting, obviously the oil that goes into cars is not going into their food, and if they want to compare their oil with some others, it would probably come up pretty good.
Perhaps some snazzy stainless steel drums, easily disposable filter medium, set and forget filtering would be required.
Mc Diesel? (only suitable for modified cars?)

[Guest Close David]

Re: The prefect prefilter for WVO???

Alga,
If you want to email me your picture I can put it on one of my sites for you and you can either link it yourself or I'll just post it up for you, whichever you prefer.
I'll get those WVO burner pics and plans to you as soon as I get a chance to build the thing. The wood option I think is good as well. I don't know how remote you are but in surburbia I go to the factories and pick up their dead packing crates and busted palletts. these make good firewood and once you have a fire going, you can put oil on it which saves wood and gives the fire a lot of heat. Once you have ashes, you can keep the fire going on oil alone and don't need any wood.

Micheal,
what do you do with the bags when they slow down? I found that by putting my filter material over a slops drum and pouring hot (50-80o) oil through it, all the fats melted out and the oil flow was restored.It's much quicker and easier to do this than washing a heap of filters or having 100 of them on the go to get through one filtering session.
It dosen't seem to be the particles that block filters nearly as much as the fats.

The collapsable tanks seem a good Idea but if they are the same as I saw on ebay, they could be a bit exy. Being a cheap ass, I was thinking of utilising the endless supply of 20L drums I have around the place and carrying my oil supply around in them. As I emptied them, I could dispose of them to save having to carry them around.
I think the collapseable tank is a great idea but I'm not sure I would use one often enough to justify buying one.

The other thing you may have to watch Michael is weight. At maybe 350Kg+, that is a lot to drag round... especially up hills! When you are towing a van which are not usually the lightest of objects, this extra mass may be very significant. You would have axel loadings of the tow vehicle if you put it in that and drawbar and braking weights if you put it in the towed vehicle.

If it were possible to gain a supply for the return trip either through local resturants or other oilers, this would reduce the loads significantly.
Perhaps friends or rels could line up some people to keep their oil or collect it from them before you arrive so itis waiting for you to filter when you get there?

I too have thought of approaching a large oil producer to take over their oil disposal but I think the initial approach would have to come from a recognised and organised entity like the ABU who have some significance and could approach the companies on a professional level on behalf of all the potential users.
I am aware some companies do in fact pay to have their oil removed so if places like McMac's were in the same boat, the cost cutting measure not to mention the enviromental one would be a big plus in securing supply.
perhaps this is something that could be put to the ABU and see if they would be prepared to have a go at it.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: The prefect prefilter for WVO???

Being a cheap ass, I was thinking of utilising the endless supply of 20L drums I have around the place and carrying my oil supply around in them. As I emptied them, I could dispose of them to save having to carry them around.

Good idea but beware the metal drums with the plastic bung in the bottom (for a tap to go in) If the plastic bung comes out while they are in your car........
Did you know oil spilt in the back of a landcruiser will work its way to the front of the car in a matter of minutes?
and new carpets are about $550?

In future I will only transport oil in the car in a plastic tub.

[Guest Close David]

Re: The prefect prefilter for WVO???

Hey Chris,
I hadn't thought of that.
All the oil I get is in fully metal tins with no bung and the metal lids. I have seen the plastic lidded drums will actually blow the plastic fitting out of the metal top of the drum with enough pressure so they would probably be some to avoid as well.

Another Idea I had was to investigate the possibility of fitting a fuel tank from a car under a trailer. It may be possible to fit 2 depending on the size of the trailer and tank.