what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

[RODEONICK Too Busy To Bio. Find all posts View Profile Close RODEONICK]

I'm just pondering what are the real benefits of WVO over Biodiesel??
As many of you know i make bio and its goin great. I just can't see why anyone would run SVO instead of bio???
This is not an attack at anyone i'm just courios on your thoughts on the matter eg pros and cons.
Cheers guys.

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

I don't run it, but I guess on first glance it would be no excise and no chemicals. However, you have the hassle of modifying your vehicle, (as opposed to biodiesel, where you modify the fuel). Then you also have the hassle of having to start-up and purge before you shut down with diesel/biodiesel. Also, there are studies showing that SVO is not so good long term for an engine used for short trips, stop/start driving etc in terms of cylinder coking etc. But don't shoot me down for that - those are not my words and I know that lots of SVOers would beg to differ, I was just being the devil's advocate and looking for some negative points as Nick requested.

I'd really like to see some studies that can show the same engine model running over the same driving conditions over the same time period be pulled apart and inspected after running on dino diesel, svo and biodiesel and see how it all stacks up.

But I'm not really qualified to answer this, as I don't run on SVO, so I should step aside and let some others who actually know more about it answer. I know there are loads of people running happily on SVO for many years and kms, but I would be curious to know if the overall longevity is shortened or could be demonstrated with a pull apart inspection.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

WVO advantages.
Great for long trips, as about 5-10ks must be done on diesel/biodiesel
No chemicals, heating, mixing, chemistry calculations.
Just filtering, put in car, and go
No "what do I do with the glycerine?"
If you are the type to get covered in what you are doing, its a lot better to avoid sodium methoxide...

Negatives
Hopless for 5-10k trips.
Hard starting if you forget to flush out.
Car needs modifying, and will require problem solving most likely.
(generally) needs two tanks, which often takes up space in car.


I fall into the category of a WVO user, but am investigating making biodiesel, as I still do a lot of short trips.

I would like to point out as I wrote this while Robert posted his answer, as I dont make biodiesel I also am not really qualified to answer this either.

[RODEONICK Too Busy To Bio. Find all posts View Profile Close RODEONICK]

Re: what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

Why is it that wvo doesn't attract the excise?? seems hardly fair. The excise in general too.

hey maybe a sticky for this would be useful to the newbies if unsure which way they want to go???
lets get a list.
For svo: No chemicals.
No waste to dispose of.
No Excise payable


For Bio: No vehicle mods
No Restrictons on travel distances
No evidence of bio use when time to sell.


Guys no need do say disclaimers as nobody here is an expert no matter how many baubells are next to their name. If their was an expert they wouldn't be here as they would already know it all. I'm here to learn like the rest of you. But it is good to know your background ie I'm running homemade b100 in my ute. Robert buys commercial bio and runs it in modern cars. This is all good info so keep it comming.

[Fitian Was here Find all posts View Profile Close Fitian]

Re: what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

WVO.

Modify the vehicle once.
safe to store around your house/back yard even around kids.
Never go short when David is around - Thanks mate.

Biodiesel

Modify the oil every time.
Unsafe to store needed chemicals specially when kid around.
Never go short when Wayne is around - Thanks mate.


Regards,

Fitian
<><

[tbird650 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tbird650]

Re: what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

Cost is also a factor for comparison to consider. An acquaintance claims it costs him around 50c a litre to make bio. I reckon my svo costs less than 5c a litre to make ready.

I've not made bio so I wonder what others view as their costs per litre?

[RODEONICK Too Busy To Bio. Find all posts View Profile Close RODEONICK]

Re: what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

For svo: No chemicals. (safety)
No waste to dispose of.(enviro)
No Excise payable (canberra stooges)
Modify once (Time)
cheaper to run

For Bio: No vehicle mods ( Cost)
No Restrictons on travel distances. (lifestyle)
No evidence of bio use when time to sell. (narrowminded People)
Short trips


my bio costs me 30 cpl and that is dry washed too .50c seems steep to me.

[froggo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close froggo]

Re: what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

Hi everyone,

Bio or svo,

As I've mentioned before I started making bio test batches for a year or so before changing to wvo.

I looked into buying the ingredients in bulk for bio and I could not get the price per litre below about 70 cents. I don't know if it was just country prices but it just did not seem to be viable after hearing about svo. I want to buy bio for my start up tank but it's not to be found in this area. The only servo that I stumbled upon in my travels was at Numurka in northern Victoria which was too far away to purchase on a regular basis.

The costs of svo is a one off outlay for the parts. There is the normal service type costs [ie/ filters] but most of the parts will last for many years before they require replacement. The wvo supply price is all about where you live and can range in cost from free upwards.

In my case bio was too costly to produce and was not ideal for my situation. Svo/wvo cost a small amount to set up and convert but is now a free fuel. To get enough wvo to have a surplus I will have to pay for the wvo from another supplier but it's still much less than the cost of making bio where I live.

froggo

[Dane Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dane]

Re: what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

G'day Nick. When you list "No Restrictons on travel distances", what do you mean exactly? Are WVO users restricted in the distances they can travel from their fuel supply more than bio users?

[Johnnojack Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johnnojack]

Re: what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

time to sell.


If they were an expert they wouldn't be here as they would already know it all. I'm here to learn like the rest of you.

The moment you think you know it all is the moment you start to slip into the past. This is a great learning place, better than any book written. Book = old information.
Re topic I make bio for my short trips up to 10k each way, SVO for longer trips. best of both.
Johnnojack

[Fitian Was here Find all posts View Profile Close Fitian]

Re: what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

Dane,
I think what nick means is that running WVO "two tanks system" you need to wait for the system to get warm before you switch over to veg oil. This is not practical for someone doing only short trips. While using bio will not make a difference.

Cheers

[gwalker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gwalker]

Re: what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

The other distance restriction with WVO is that the main tank is normally used for WVO with the smaller 'startup/shut down' tank for diesel or biodiesel.
So when you travel beyond your WVO tank capacity or supply, you have to make decisions on what fuel to buy and where to put it.

Bio vehicles simply top up with dino from any service station.

The other problem with WVO is the gell point of the batch. Frosty mornings can cause problems if the WVO in the main tank has gone solid.

Bio is known to disolve older types of seals and is also suspected of 'blowby', getting into the sump, thus reducing the effectiveness of the oil.

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

No evidence of bio use when time to sell.

While there is no physical evidence of the conversion, the aroma of veg/biodiesel remains for a long time after returning to the use of diesel fuel.
The other main iissue I see, is that the biodiesel by-product, whilst usable in small volumes has no market for small volumes, necessitating responsible disposal of this by-product.

Some sewage processing facilities may accept quantities of this substance with no problems, others may object strenuously.
Before disposing of it via the sewer, you shuld check to confirm compatability.

Some people use it in compost or on broadacre pasture as a fertiliser/wetting agent. This may not be compatable with soil types in your area so please verify with specialists in your area.

If you need to dispose of large volumes of by-product, actively seek people who may have a use for the by-product, before disposing of the substance.

regards,
Tony

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

Note: Blowby is an issue with veggie and biodiesel.

Please ensure that oil change intervals are reduced to the minimum manufacturer spec, or shorter, to minimise the possibility for polymerisation of condensed "Blow-by" gasses in the sump.

Regards,
Tony

[Fitian Was here Find all posts View Profile Close Fitian]

Re: what are the benefits of SVO over Bio

Dear Fitian and all, I am one of the svo converts and I"m getting a bit more smoking from my exhaust. Not white so I think it's fuel.Now I note on this thread that some of you say the engine should be run 5 to 10 km before switching over. I switch to oil a bit sooner than that , and the engine sounds and runs fine. My question is could I be causing any blocking or damage.
Thanks

Hello Dave,

I do not know if this has anything to do with the benefits of SVO over Bio however, The system on your car allows you to change over to wvo after driving for 4 km max. even in winter time. Anything above that is a waste of start up fuel.

Regardless of what fuel you are using - your car has done half a million kms. When I saw it last and you told me that have have increased/changed the timing on the IP. I remember we also noticed engin oil leak too.

I think you need to get the IP timming retuned by a proffesional diesel mechanic and it would be good to get the valves adjusted and the injectors looked at too.

I'd be happy to help you get your engine tuned and sorted out.

Happy Australia day