Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

Hi,

"I've heard about using Canola oil, where do I start"
"What sort of engine do I need"
"What is a home filtering system"

Don't we groan when we see postings like this? I do and at times patience wears thin. "It's just so easy to find this stuff out, just use the search function" we say or think.

But is it that easy?
There are a lot of threads that have poor titles and drift way off topic.
I'm thinking greater use of stickies might help alleviate some of the pain for the regulars and actually be useful for the lazy and bewildered.

Of course, there is a certain pleasure one gets from actually learning something new after having working hard for it, so should we be denying the lazy and bewildered the joy of this experience by making it easy for them?

I hang out only on the WVO forum and some of the useful stickies might be vehicle specific issues - Mercedes, Landcruiser, Nissan etc
Other might relate to different parts of the process - Heating the oil, home filtering systems, purging options, equipment options and things that work and don't work for example.

The sticky could be one well informed article approved by the moderators or maybe even having a vote, is there a voting function in the forum??, of forum users to say 'Yes, we agree this is a fair and factual description".

Or the sticky could be a page of links to pertinent and sensible threads. Now and again the sticky moderator would add a new pertinent and sensible thread to the sticky, which over time would build into the 'bible' for that issue.

Does any of this appeal as a good idea that is feasible?

Tim

[RODEONICK Too Busy To Bio. Find all posts View Profile Close RODEONICK]

Re: Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

I'm glad you suggested this tim as the noobs have been coming in droves of late and i completely understand the patience wearing thin

I think a few more stickys would be good. and perhaps a must read 1st protocols page when a person joins?

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

I agree with David (although I barely understood what he said with the spelling, Its been near perfect before so how about trying a little harder or trying less harder to mispell).

The search feature is good but returns EVERYTHING, making it impossible to wade through all of the results before finding the relevent stuff.

There are great chev diesel forums with almost everything a newbie could want in one or two threads. The moderator dont put up with questions that have been rehashed and EXPECT a base line level of knowledge before they will start answering questions. However EVERTHING is provided.

Sounds like they have too much time on their hands.

[Qwarla Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qwarla]

Re: Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

One thing that may be useful is a couple of stickies.

One say for WVO could be a writeup giving an overview of what is required to run WVO, and a brief overview of processes in filtering the oil.

Then one for biodiesel. Same thing, brief explanation of exactly WHAT bio diesel is, then an introduction on how it is made. Maybe a link to the Dr. Pepper method, and links to other useful stuff like the Collaborative Bio Tutoral site.

That could all be put in a section called NEWBIES START HERE, or just a NEWBIE section. That way they might get a start in the right direction before posting away without a clue what they want or how the will do it.

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

This has actually all been discussed before, but amounted to nothing.

It'll come down to some one or a group who puts the time in to organise a TOUR of sorts, and we then point them to the page where it all begins.

Check out the stickies and info at this forum;

6.5L Diesel Engine - Diesel Place

The effort put in by these mods is nothing short of amazing.

This one in particular is a sticky for newbies

Welcome New Forum Members “read This First” For Info On How To Best Use This Forum…. - Diesel Place

And this one is a reference/glossary page;


GM 6.5 Reference Material & FAQ Section - Diesel Place

If we're serious about it, this is the way to go.

Best yet all of he resources are already here, we need only collate and format it.

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

Re: Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

This has actually all been discussed before, but amounted to nothing.

Sheesh, don't you just hate people who rehash old topics......
Joe, sorry if this has been tossed around before, I did look in this forum, obviously not well enough.

I'm willing to put some time into the WVO section, and was going to build my own website that I could direct newbies to. This would contain all my own experiences, but figured it would best keeping it all in the forum.

I like the idea of a Newbies read this first sticky/section as you've suggested from the 6.5L Diesel Engine - Diesel Place forum which I'll check out soon, and then the moderators closing threads where people obviously haven't done any of their own work.

If this is what others feel is a good way to go, I can put time into it - but only for the WVO section. I'm soon trekking to the Pilbara towing a canola fuel trailer for the 4500kms trip, so won't produce much for a month.

Tim

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

Tim,
I support your commitment to producing the sticky.
Perhaps you can prepare it offline using a word processor, adding the links to the document from the forum as you go. This will avoid the possibility of posters disrupting your work while it is a work in progress.
I look forward to reading your post.

Regards,
Tony

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

Agreed. The forum needs better organisation. It does not just need stickies, but FAQs and possibly a new front end to help people navigate to such things easier. Tim - I'll support whatever efforts you want to make in this direction and anyone else who wants to help you. If you can make the content, I'll help by finding a place to hang it.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

Would this be a start? feel free to "quote" and make changes (perhaps in a different colour) and move to a sticky. Its a bit SVO centric (as thats what I know).

How to run a car on veggie oil
The problem is the modern diesel engine is designed to run on “diesel” fuel, not veggie oil, veggie oil being thicker than diesel. (The inventor had meant them to run on veggie oil, but that’s another story) After 100 years of fine tuning, the modern diesel is fine tuned for this thin liquid, not veggie oil. Of course its possible to change the modern diesel to run on veggie oil, but we need to overcome the thickness issue.

There is a number of ways to do this. They all will work, the question is for how long.

Just pour the oil in the tank. (and hope it starts cold, and lasts)
Make the veggie oil thinner by making it into biodiesel. (well proven)
Thin the veggie oil out with diesel/ kerosene/ unleaded. (also makes it thinner)
Get the oil hot before it goes in the car (as it gets hotter it becomes thinner, well proven)
Change the cars injectors/ glow plugs to get it to spray veggie oil from cold. (expensive, not many on the forum have done this)

Each has advantages and disadvantages. Biodiesel needs chemicals, but not to modify the car, straight veggie oil needs to oil to be filtered and the car modified, but no chemicals, changing the cars injectors is highly expensive, and if you don’t know the potential dangers of putting unleaded into a diesel car, taking on a second job and paying for fossil fuel is probably you best bet.

Some posts also reveal how well they work. Phrases like “I have been making biodiesel for 5 years now……” “I have been driving the car I converted to SVO in 2004…..” or I have been putting straight oil in my unmodified car for 3 weeks now and…..” You get the picture.

For any of these, you will need veggie oil. You can get it second hand from places that deep fry food (pubs, clubs, fish and chip shops, motels, cafes) You can buy it new (try an oil pressing company, not a supermarket) or you can grow your own. (if you don’t know the difference between a broad acre farm and a dairy farm, it may not be for you)
Getting oil is a good place to start, but if you commit to taking oil, don’t stop without consulting your shop, or you will make it hard for the next guy. "sharing" the oil collection is a good place to start, it leaves the shop with the option of retuning to the other collector if needed)

To make biodiesel the best place to start is a “dr pepper” method. Read the safety stuff, search how to do the Dr pepper method, re read the safety stuff, get the chemicals and the safety gear, and have a go.

To run on veggie oil you need one of a few things.
The most proven method is to get an old Mercedes (with an inline pump and indirect injection) put another fuel system in it (one for diesel, one for cold filtered liquid veggie oil), put a fuel heater in it (a flat plate heater is good) start it on diesel and then flick the switch to veggie oil when the engine is hot, run on veggie oil and 5ks before the end of the trip change back to diesel so the next start is on diesel. Of course it has some hassles (if you live 5ks from work example its not going to save anything)

Of course then things range to the less proven/ more problematic such as rotary injection pumps, direct injection, common rail systems, quicker changeover times, just pour it into the original fuel tank and go.

Common parts used are a Pollack fuel change over valve, a flat plate heat exchanger, outboard motor fuel tanks and automotive hoses.

Often people post their conversions on here, so do a search and see what others have done.

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

Re: Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

All,

Thanks Chris for your draft, but I've started afresh. It's just too hard to build a document collaboratively online - or maybe I'm a control freak

I did up the attached pdf last night. (Sorry, start the pdf at page 4 and work towards 1) It needs a lot more fleshing out and refining, but is this the sort of info you feel is useful and is it presented in a useful style?

My idea is that this document would be added to from time to time, refined as we go along.

I am assuming that this will go as a sticky at the top of the WVO section of the forum.
I am assuming that once the sticky is made, that is still can be edited either by the author or administrators.
I am assuming that when pasted into the forum that all the links will resolve.

If you notice I have missed anything out, which I know I have, please just write dot pointers for the topic, don't spend time writing long screeds. Just let me know which sections need fleshing out, or reducing, and what other detail needs to go in; I'll do the wordsmithing.

Thanks

Tim

[Nuddy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nuddy]

Re: Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

Haven't had time to read yet and off tomorrow for 2 weeks, but should have some time while away??
However in view of the probable imminent demise of the bio fuels forums it may be a futile exercise.
I will post elsewhere about the possible future for SVO discussion.

[BrianW Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BrianW]

Re: Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

Hi,

"I've heard about using Canola oil, where do I start"
"What sort of engine do I need"

Gee Tim, I really thought you knew some of this stuff. ;-)

Comments coming via email and thanks for your efforts.

B

[adrian 76 Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close adrian 76]

Re: Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

New,
Easy to navigate, easy to search, Loads of information. Don't change a thing. Im no computer wizz, but worked it out. Thankyou.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

Only bit I would question is if it is necessary to paint mild steel tanks, as mine seems to be fine. (Recommended perhaps, but not a must do)

Apart from that excellent though.

[Matt0 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Matt0]

Re: Are more stickies an answer for Newbies?

Would it be useful to build an article in Wikipedia on Biofuels for Noobs? Then in this forum a sticky with a link to the Wiki article can refer the Noobs to the basic 'how-to' info.

I suppose I'm thinking along these lines because it's possible that Robert will shut down this site (see THIS THREAD).

My vague understanding of Wikipedia is that Robert (or anyone else) wouldn't be burdened with costs of hosting the info. if it were on Wiki.

What do you think?