06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

[lauraj35 Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close lauraj35]

I have just bought a brand new VW GOLF TDI specifically paying the extra money for the diesel so I could use bio-diesel. The dealer was encouraging, and all preliminary research looked good. Imaging my disapointment when putting fuel in it for the first time and discovering the large sticker on the inside of the fuel door saying "NOT SUITABLE FOR BIODIESEL" , although this is mentioned nowhere else in the VW specs. Enquiries to VW have brough no response.

Does anyone have any insight into why these cars are not suitable for biodiesel, or if there is any way around this?

[grien_machien Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close grien_machien]

Re: 06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

Hi Lauraj35,

Here are some links that I have found in the forums:

http://www.biofuelsforum.com/sydney_...biodiesel.html

http://www.biofuelsforum.com/sydney_..._golf_tdi.html

These won't help you very much, but they do highlight your dilemma. My parents recently bought a Golf and I too noticed the 'no biodiesel' warning. As is mentioned in the first link, it may be a particulate filter issue.

Perhaps as these vehicles get older and some clever people own them, they will find ways to remove or bypass these obstacles to using biodiesel.

All new vehicles must be biofuel friendly in terms of non-rubber components because of the corrosive nature of low sulphur diesel. We need to get to the bottom of what exactly are the barriers to using biodiesel. As you will see from reading the links, the manufacturers will likely be unhelpful to say the least.

Perhaps there are some clever mechanics out there working on these vehicles?

Cheers,

GM

[moonan Member Find all posts View Profile Close moonan]

Re: 06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

Hi Laura,
As stated in the post referenced above, all VWs fitted with "DPF" (diesel particulate filter) in the exhaust will have a "NOT SUITABLE FOR BIODIESEL" sticker in the filler door.
As to whether that is really a reason not to use bio - look at the other threads here and do a bit more research... We don't really seem to have much wisdom on that.
At any rate, there would be unlikely to be any issues with blends up to say B20.

..Neil

[liquidgold Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close liquidgold]

Re: 06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

http://www.biofuelsforum.com/sydney_..._golf_tdi.html

From: VW autoassist <mailto:vw.autoassist@internationalsos.com>
To: PRIVATE
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 4:55 AM
Subject: RE: Biofuel use in Golf TDI (Reply from Volkswagen Australia)


Lets look at the letter linked above

"they are ordered as such, the vehicles sold here in Australia have not been built to do so"

-------FALSE

with Bio Diesel fuels the vehicles ideally need to be fitted with fuel heating devices

-------FALSE

no current legislation regarding controls to the quality or Cetane ratings of this fuel

-------FALSE

enough of that letter now reguarding diesel partriculate filter

At this point "all" material I have come across provide results that say biodiesel has much lower emssions across the board except NOx. So one can conclude it is superior in the emssions department.

When combined with a Catalytic converter (Diesel particulate filter) emissions of both fuels are reduced futher thought I haven't read an extreme amount reguarding the emssion comparsions but their are suggestions the Catalytic converters work better with the Dino diesel and one would hope so since it needs it.

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: 06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

Good points. Unfortunately we cannot seem to rely on manufacturers giving us honest, well researched advice on how their cars will run on biodiesel. They just err on the side of caution, or as liquidgold points out, just tell lies based on missing a few key facts.
The particulate filter issue is one that really needs to be solved. Seems that all the manufacturers are using this one as the latest excuse to prevent the use of biodiesel. Perhaps this is because it is a relatively new technology, as far as the diesel engine is concerned. Maybe now that there is no longer really any other arguments about any of the existing components in the car, this is their last ditch attempt to find a reason for you still to use petroleum distillate?
I have done a bit of research too on this topic, but can find no real information. I am really not qualified to judge or understand the scant information that I did find, so I asked one of the world's leading scientists on the subject (Prof. Martin Mittelbach). He basically said that he could not say conclusively that there would be no problems, but common sense and the research he has done have so far found no problem with biodiesel and particulate filters. Have a look at this thread for more info on this (exact post here).
Also, have a look in the industry section of the forum to see VW's "official" position, as far as we've been able to determine from their correspondence thus far.
If anyone can give us some better and more definative answers on the effects of biodiesel in particulate filters, I'd love to hear it - please post a new thread if you do.

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: 06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

Seems (to me at least) that the issue about Diesel Particulate Filters is, as we all suspected, completely unfounded. In fact, recent scientific studies (done by folks in white coats) have shown biodiesel to be much friendlier to DPFs. Personally, I am not in the least bit surprised.
I've just posted up a thread on it here.

[plugh Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close plugh]

Re: 06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

Hi, I'm new to the forums .. actually newly returned to Australia after many years abroad. I'm in the process of ordering an Eos, diesel, specifically because I want to run BD in it. The immediate response from the dealer was "you can't do that". I told him I didn't believe there was any good reason for that and would probably do it anyway but he shouldn't know that because it voids the warranty.

One thing he did tell me was that BP had bought a bunch of new VWs to run BD in to prove that it doesn't do any harm.

I said to the dealer that given the current political climate, jumping on the BD bandwagon would be an excellent thing for VW.

My friends in the US run B100 in their VWs (golfs and jettas)(actually B99 because distributors don't get alternative fuel discounts unless there's some petro based diesel in the product) and it voids the warranty there too. Amazingly, Australia is behind on the diesel front when compared to the US and the US is so backward it's amazing ... anyway ...

I'm going to run BD in mine, now to find somewhere that sells it.

-Peter

[Matt Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Matt]

Re: 06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

I have a friend with a Peugeot 307HDi with a particulate filter, ie it adds something to burn them off periodically. He says in the time he has had the car its done this once with no hassles (he is a chemist) and has run it on B100 all of its life. Seems to pay creedence to the argument its not really a problem.

Reading the VW letter I would run it (the VW) only on fuel I had full confidence in, its quality is most important.

Matt

[ab555 Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close ab555]

Re: 06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

Hi

Just joined this site I've been reading a few posts some interesting stuff in particular the posts on newer vehicles ie post 2004 Europe is the biggest produce and consumer of Biodiesel Germany in particular so you would expect a German car manufacturer to make their diesel cars capable of running biodiesel in one form or another 100% bio or blended with mineral diesel also natural rubber has been phased out of european cars as europe went over to ultra low sulphur diesel between 1993-95 and they been blending 5% ethanol into petrol for a while now so most cars manufactured in europe will have had to have had the rubber issue resolved or they would be having a lot of warranty claims below are vehicles that run on SVO if they run on SVO

vegetable oil enginge installer - truck and car changeover

The following cars have been converted by partnes of ATG GmbH:

Car / Transporter
Audi:
80 1.6 TDI, 100 2.5 TDI, A2 1.2 TDI 3L, A3 1.9 TDI, A4 1.9 TDI, A4 2.5 TDI, A6 2.5 TDI

BMW
320 D, 320 TD, 324 TD, 325 TD, 325 TDS, 524 TD, 525 TDS

Chevrolet
Blazer K5 V

Citroen
AX 1.4 D, BX 17 TD, BX 19 D, C 15 1.8 D, CX 25 TD, Evasion 1.9 TD, Jumper 1.9 TD, Saxo 1.5 D, Xantia 1.9 TD

Daihatsu
Rocky 2.8 TD

Fiat
Doblo 1.9 D, Ducato 1.9 D, Ducato 2.5 D, Ducato 2.8 TD, Florino, Scudo 1.9 D

Ford
F350 7.3 TD, Escort 1.8 D, Fiesta 1.8 D, Focus 1.8 TD, Focus 1.8 TDDI Turnier, Mondeo 1.8 TD, Ranger, Scorpio 2.5 TD, Transit 2.4 TDE, Transit 2.5 D, Transit 2.5 TD

Hyundai
Galloper 2.5 TCI

Isuzu
Trooper 2.8 TD

Iveco
Daily 2.8 D

Jeep
Grand Cherokee 3.1 TD

Kia
Carnival 2.9 TD, Carnival 2.9 TDI, Pregio, Retona 2.0 TD

Land Rover
Defender 90 2.5 D, Defender 110 2.5 TD, Defender 110 2.5 Td5, Freelander 2.0 D, Range Rover

Mazda
323F 2.0 D, E 2.2 D

Mercedes
190 D, 200 D, 208 D, 210 D, 220 D, 220 CDI, 240 D, 250 D, 300 GD, E 300 TD, 308 D, 310 D, 407 D, 410 D, 709 D, 814 D, 817 D, A-Klasse 140 CDI, A-Klasse 170 CDI, Sprinter 208 D, Sprinter 210 D, Sprinter 211 CDI, Sprinter 212 D, Sprinter 312 D, Sprinter 313 CDI, Sprinter 316 CDI, Sprinter 416 CDI, Vario 815 D, Vito 108 D, Vito 110 D

Mitsubishi
Carisma 1.9 TD, L200 2.5 TD, Pajero 2.5 TD

Nissan
Almera 2.0 D, Almera 2.2 TD, King Cap MD22, Patrol 2.8 TD, Sunny 2.0 D, Terrano II 2.7 TD

Opel
Astra 1.7 TD, Astra 1.7 DTI, Combo 1.7 DI, Corsa 1.5 D, Corsa 1.7 DI, Frontera 2.5 TDS, Frontera 2.8 TDI, Kadett 1.6 D, Omega 2.5 TD, Omega 2.2 DTI, Vectra 1.7 TD, Vectra 2.0 DTI

Peugeot
106 1.5 D, 205 1.9 D, 306 1.9 D, 309 1.9 D, 405 1.9 TD, 605 2.1 TD, Boxer, Expert 1.9 TD

Renault
Espace, Kangoo 1.9 DTI, Laguna, Master, Megane 1.9 DTI, R5 1.6 D, R21 D, Rapid 1.9 D, Safrane 2.5 TD, Scenic 1.9 DCI

SEAT
1.9 TDI, Arosa 1.4 TDI, Ibiza 1.9 TDI, Inca

Skoda
Fabia 1.9 SDI, Fellicia 1.9 D, Octavia 1.9 TDI

Smart
CDI

Ssangyong
Musse 2.9 D

Toyota
Avensis 2.0 TD, Corolla 1.8 D, Land Cruiser 3.0 TD, Hilux

Vauxhill
Como 1.7

Volkswagen VW
Caddy 1.9 TDI, Golf II 1.6 TD, Golf III 1.9 TD, Golf III 1.9 TD, Golf IV 1.9 TDI, Jetta 1.9 TD, Lupo 1.4 TDI, Lupo 1.7 SDI, LT 28, LT 35 2.8 TDI, Passat 1.6 TD, Passat 1.9 TDI, Polo 1.9 SDI, Sharan 1.9 TDI, T2 1.7 D, T3 1.6 TD, T4 1.9 TD, T4 2.4 D, T4 2.5 TDI

Volvo
240 D, 740 2.4 TD, 850 2.5 TDI, S80 2.5 TDI, V70 2.5 TDI

Truck / Buss
DAF, MAN, Mercedes, Neoplan, Iveco, Renault, Scania, Setra, Volvo

truck and agricultural engines
Claas,MTS-1523.3 Belarus,Fai,Case, Deutz-Fahr, Fendt, Fiat, IHC, JBC Fastrac, John Deere, Lamborghini, Massey Ferguson, MB Trac, New Holland, Pasquali, Renault, Same, Steyr

http://www.biodieselfillingstations.co.uk/approvals.htm

Biodiesel, in theory, can go into all diesel engines as the diesel engine itself was designed to run on plant oil. However it is the parts attached to the diesel engine which could potentially cause problems – although the vast majority of diesels on the road are fine running on 100% biodiesel. In reality, the rule of thumb is you can use 100% biodiesel in any diesel built between 1990-2004, but be aware that a one-off fuel filter change will be needed after you first make the transition (and any mix of biodiesel and fossil diesel is OK too). I would recommend that cars built after 2004 should run on a 50% blend not 100%. Be aware too that biodiesel made from waste cooking oil will freeze in winter and so from November to April one should blend that kind of Biodiesel at 50% as well. However, Biodiesel made from a Rapeseed crop (RME) will not freeze and can be used at 100% all year round in the UK. Please note that it is advisable to purchase biodiesel with EN14214 specification, that gives you some guarantee of quality. In short – to be safe, use RME Biodiesel at EN14214 in a car built between 1990 and 2004 and then you can be carbon neutral all year without problems!
In terms of official compatibility, despite the majority of diesel vehicles on the road being fine on 100%, only a handful of companies will officially approve their vehicles for 100% use. The companies that have approved 100% biodiesel are VW, Audi, SEAT and Skoda. They have approved all their cars built between 1996 and 2004 on 100% use of ”RME” Biodiesel (Biodiesel made from Rapeseed) providing it meets the specification DIN41606 (which was later replaced by EN14214). These companies can still provide some brand new cars warranted on 100% biodiesel but one has to request it (best to get the official letter from German Base as some UK agents aren’t fully aware). As these companies have officially approved 100% biodiesel I urge you to use your consumer power to support them in supporting the environmental movement.


I personally run a 2000 reg Vauxhall Vectra 2.0DTI on a blend of biodiesel 80% Bio 20% Mineral Diesel I find this better for starting on cold mornings apart from the cost biodiesel £0.75p (A$1.79) per litre Mineral Diesel £0.94p (A$2.24) per litre yes the we get royally ______ insert own word the engine also runs smoother

Well hopefully there's some useful info in this post if not you can laugh at how much we have to pay for fuel

[Natbio Member Find all posts View Profile Close Natbio]

Re: 06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

We have three Golf TDI diesels in the company. One 2.0 litre and two 1.8 litre cars. We have run the 2.0lt golf on 100% soybiodiesel for a month August 2006, and since then we have used a blend of B30 in all three vehicles. 15,000kms services have been done and no coments from VW. Our first service was done at 15,000km interval because of the higher lubricity of biodiesel in the fuel.

VW Aust are not up to date with what their parent coy are doing throuout Europe and elswhere in the world. They confirm the engine is no different to those used in europe which are recomended for B20 use.

Only advice we can give is make sure you use a good biodiesel, preferably from 100% Soy or 100% Rape seed oil. Then you will have no hassles and a far smoother and better ride than fossil diesel whilst doing a lot of good.
These higher quality biodiesels have CFPP of -5degreeC at B100 (and even much lower when blended) so you can happily start and drive as normal all year.

[moonan Member Find all posts View Profile Close moonan]

Re: 06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

My 2005 R5 TDI Touareg runs happily on B100 when I can get it. Over 80k now, (say 8k l of fuel used). 1200 l has been bio. The first (say) 300 l were around B30, and since then it has been B70 - B100 when I can get it. I'm about to see how far into winter I get on B100. Using Rutherford fuel. I find I'm changing fuel filters more often (now on 4th one), and they are $110 each.

[philbaggins Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close philbaggins]

Re: 06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

i am a new player in the biodiesel consumer marketplace as i have placed an order for VW golf 2.0L TDI, only then to hear about this biodiesel "problem".

basically, from the moment i pick up my new vehicle, in a few weeks, do i then change the fuel filter before placing biodiesel into it?

how do you know how often you need to change the filter?

as you can see, i am a pre-novice.

phil

[Suzy Member Find all posts View Profile Close Suzy]

Re: 06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

basically, from the moment i pick up my new vehicle, in a few weeks, do i then change the fuel filter before placing biodiesel into it?

No, you only need to do this with a vehicle that's been driven for a long time (tens of thousands of kilometres) on petrodiesel.

Petrodiesel leaves deposits in the fuel system that biodiesel will clean out.

But as you're buying a new vehicle, it's got a new, clean fuel system, so there's nothing to be cleaned out.

So you don't need to do anything. Just fill it with biodiesel and go.

how do you know how often you need to change the filter?

Again, as long as you use good quality fuel, you won't need to replace the filter except for the normal service intervals, as recommended by VW.

I've got a new Peugeot 307, that I'm running on B100, and the only servicing I plan to do that's in addition to that prescribed in the service booklet is to double the frequency of oil changes (from every 20,000km to every 10,000km). I'm doing this for two reasons - firstly there is good evidence that biodiesel thins out your engine oil at a greater rate than petrodiesel, and secondly I think changing the oil more often is a good idea anyway to prolong the life of the engine.

Have fun running your new car on bio - if it's anything like our Pug, it'll go much nicer than on petrodiesel.

[Natbio Member Find all posts View Profile Close Natbio]

Re: 06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

Hi,
We have a fleet of 3 Golf TDi vehicles. We have run them on B100 blends and lower from the day we received them. No problems at all. At the 15,000km service no problems were recorded by the VW service team. I did not tell them I was using Biodiesel. I did not have to change oil before the scheduled service and I will continue to use as high a blend as possible. The only time you may have a problem with the filter is if the biodiesel you get is of poor quality. I have only used Soybiodiesel which is always of consistent quality. It is made from virgin soy oil, not different types of fats and used oils, so the fuels consistency is ensured. Have a great time driving the Golf TDi.

[col Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close col]

Re: 06 VW GOLF TDI advice required

I just bought a 2006 Golf TDI and freaked when I read the owners manual regarding biodiesel and the DPF. The good news is that even though my Golf has a "no biodiesel" sticker on the fuel cap, it doesn't have the DPF. Phew