The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

[Sauman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sauman]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

Small Things,Big Things.
"Dream
for if dreams die,
Life is broken winged
A bird that cannot Fly".
Little did I understand the implications of the comment when my school teacher in standard 6 wanted us to not only learn that by heart but spent about 6 classes on the subject of dreaming.
Little did I know that these words are going to be embedded in whatever action that I was to undertake in life.
Now on the concepts of macro and micro.Just a matter of an "a" and "i".
Very fine line dividing the structure and reality of action.Whats works in one scenario ideally should be able to be scaled up or down ...that is if the module is designed well.I am totally with you Dillyman when you say Robert has started just that.He has indeed " Cybor Legend Nerd".
This forum is probably the only forum that I let go all my emotions ,passions and share my vision of a great southern land where our children can grow up thinking globally and acting locally.Contributing to the general well being of the earth in general beacuse we the oldies have gone and WALKED the extra path,taken pains and developed a societal structure that imbibes in them the spirit of what Australia stands for.

Ideally I would love to see this forum develop into the biggest Alternate fuel forum not only for business activity ,but for research activity as well as a platform for education and disemmination of knowledge.
Chris has rightly pointed out that it is unfair to have everything dumped on our Cybor Legend to carry on the great work that he does along with darren,cameron,joe and all other moderators.Would be nice to share some load of these guys.

I have a few ideas and am sure all of us in here have.Lets put our cards on the table.Formulate a short term and long term stratergy.And just go and do it.
Mind you everyone.We have a larg bunch of consious and inteligent individuals in this forum.Let us use that and build on it.
It is after all for our tomorrow.A better tomorrow.
"If you can dream it,you can do it"......
Looking forward to getting back home and getting very very actively involved.

Just on the note of coop.I started on a journey to develop Self Help Groups of women from the economically under priviliged of India.In a span of 16 months.There are 85,000 members and there income level has gone up from zuich to $800Us a year and they are all part of the cOOP.Which provides a legal identity and support structure,training and development needs.Also provides a safety net against any sort of intrusion by polies ,govt mandates and corruption spills.So yes if it can happen in India and with very very minimal resources.I started of with about 25k(the only money I had left after the Divorce clean up) and just a vision to do it.Don't see why it can't happen in our great southern land.

The game is in our hands.Depends on how hard we wanna party.
Party Time.

Cheers
Sauman

[dillyman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dillyman]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

Well said Sauman,

I like your direction it is what i envisaged. We of course start at the beginning, (no time frame) and most certainly we do not need or should we consider the load at the door of our illustrious cybor legend. In my perspective the structure is already in place. There is already a geographical compartmentalization of the forum, a ready made structure from which to start. In fact it has in a way already structured itself. No one body needs to be bigger or stronger than any other, we all take responsibility for the development. Instead of the threads being just informed opinion, there can be the embodiment of suggestions of collaborative movement and potential movement towards a common goal. Of course there needs to be identified direction, than a single load on one particular group can thus be alleviated. A good starting point perhaps. What should our identified goals be? Perhaps a mission statement and a willingness to participate. Some coordination will be required at times, but for the moment, I must point out,- that this forum has been one of the best I have experienced for open mindedness, (ok there are day when we all can be bilious) generally the way we go now is to test some of our ideas on each other for issues and how we could proceed. Opinion is the starting point and all can participate or I hope most would, as all would have some feelngs on the subject. This pathway will assist the avoidance of dangers that Terry Syd and Tony of west Oz so well point out to all.
Maybe this is Pie in the sky, I would like to think it is more than an option. No one individual should be vunerable. How do people think about this. Participation is optional and degree of involvement is a personal thing, though I must say that I think everyone has some strong feelings on the subject. How about an opinion people.

Rgds

Dillyman.

PS. Robert, how do you like the "Cybor Legend Nerd" Label?

[Chris Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chris]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

Dillyman,Terry,Tony,The Cybor Legend, Sauman, Darren, Xavier, Many other like us, as well as Others!!
What can I say, this is really good
Yes you have to be passionate, have a dream, stay realistic, contribute, exchange, engage, participate, join, move forward, be helpful rather then obstinate so on, so on
Lets keep focused guys we are getting somewhere
What a great collection of like minded people we got here
How can we not succeed??
Cheers
Chris

[Sauman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sauman]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

Dillyman,Terry,Tony,The Cybor Legend, Sauman, Darren, Xavier, Many other like us, as well as Others!!
What can I say, this is really good
Yes you have to be passionate, have a dream, stay realistic, contribute, exchange, engage, participate, join, move forward, be helpful rather then obstinate so on, so on
Lets keep focused guys we are getting somewhere
What a great collection of like minded people we got here
How can we not succeed??
Cheers
Chris

Admire your ability to sum it all up "Man with the Tongs".
The official feeder .

Succeed we shall.
We can't let then get away with everything.
They have done enough damage.
Our time to put the wheels back in the place.Indeed it is a hard road.But then we fringe dwellers can build a village with a penknife.Together.
Forward hoo!!!
Indeed is the best forum to hang out and do stuff.And heaps of stuff to be done....action stations.What a great bunch

Cheers
Sauman
P.S.:Can't wait to get back and plunge in the deep of things.

[xavier Member Find all posts View Profile Close xavier]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

G 'day

The risk of of seeming like an accountant, anyone brave enough to venture an enquiry with your local ATO, will receive a confidential and comprehensive about the tax laws relating to the manufacture of biodiesel as a fuel, and why tax must be paid, even if the biofuel is produced for your own use.The ATO will also explain the difference tax regime applicable to oil produced for food.

A tax excise permit/licence is required for all form of biodiesel production.

The licensing of fuels for sale is governed by federal acts (such as the licenced fuels sites act, etc..) and various state laws, these are freely available from the local state revenue offices, although some states have additional departments regulating various aspects.

Most of these acts are available from the various government websites.

BUT BEWARE, as with all of the increasingly anti-libertarian restrictions creeping in these days, the new regulation hint at a character test for licencing. So if you have an old dope conviction, or haven't paid your taxes etc.. (or your face just doesn't fit) be quick to apply before they have the mechanisms in place.

If I can find time, when I return to Australia, I will try to organize a sort of Biodiesel tax legal handbook to post on the forum if anyone thinks such a booklet would be useful.

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

Xavier,
I agree that a concise precis of the Tax rules on Biodiesel production would be a worthwhile document to have available on this forum. Having it in a PDF form,at would avoid compatability issues.
Tony

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

Xavier - a brilliant idea. That would be really helpful.

[dillyman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dillyman]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

Hi XAVIER,

Your offer would be well received. Much appreciated.

Rgds

Dillyman

[xavier Member Find all posts View Profile Close xavier]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

G'day, more tax information, plagerized but accurate.

Fuel Tax Credits
Fuel tax credits commenced 1 July 2006 and substantially replaced the energy grants credits scheme (EGCS) with final changes applying from 1 July 2012. Fuel tax credits provide a credit for fuel tax (excise duty) that is included in the price of fuel.
Fuel tax credits are available to entities using fuel in their businesses.
Eligibility for Fuel Tax Credits
From 1 July 2006, fuel tax credit can be claimed for fuel acquired, manufactured or imported for use in the carrying on of a business as follows:
diesel and petrol when used in;

• a vehicle with a gross vehicle mass (GVM) greater than 4.5 tonne travelling on a public road(diesel vehicles acquired before 1 July 2006 can equal 4.5 tonne)
• electricity generation (business and commercial).

diesel only when used in activities (other than road transport) that were previously eligible under the energy grants credits scheme. They include:

• rail or marine transport
• certain primary production activities (for example, agriculture, fishing and forestry)
• mining.

In addition, other fuels (including diesel, petrol, kerosene, heating oil and toluene) are eligible when used

• in burner applications such as heating
• in the manufacture of explosives (diesel only), and
• for any other non-fuel use, such as a solvent, or as an ingredient in the manufacture of other products(for example paint or plastic).

Additional criteria apply from 1 July 2006:

• diesel motor vehicles (other than farm vehicles used primarily on an agricultural property in carrying out primary production business) need to meet one of the following environmental criteria. The vehicle must either:
  • be manufactured on or after 1 January 1996
  • be part of an accredited audited maintenance programme
  • meet the Australian Transport Council’s in-service emission standard (referred to in the National Environment Protection (Diesel Vehicle Emissions) Measure), or
  • comply with an Australian Government-endorsed maintenance schedule.

From 1 July 2008, fuel tax credits will be expanded to include the following changes to activities other than road transport:

• petrol, as well as diesel, will be eligible for a fuel tax credit when used in previously eligible EGCS activities (for example, agriculture, forestry, fishing, mining and marine and rail transport)
• petrol and diesel will be eligible for 50% fuel tax credit when used in activities, machinery or equipment not previously eligible under EGCS. A full fuel tax credit will apply from 1 July 2012.

Alternative fuels such as biodiesel, liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), and compressed natural gas (CNG), are not eligible for fuel tax credit until 1 July 2011. However, you may be eligible for a fuel grant under the energy grants credits scheme if you use alternative fuels in a vehicle with a gross vehicle mass (GVM) of at least 4.5 tonne travelling on a public road. See ATO Fact Sheet Alternative fuels (NAT 15232),

Energy Grants Credit Scheme

The Australian Government has announced its intention to replace the energy grants credits scheme (EGCS) with fuel tax credits as part of fuel tax reform.
Fuel tax credits will provide a credit for fuel tax that is included in the price of fuel. It will commence 1 July 2006, with final changes applying from 1 July 2012.
Alternative fuels, including biodiesel, will not be eligible for a fuel tax credit until 1 July 2011.
However, alternative fuels including biodiesel will continue to be eligible for a fuel grant under EGCS for fuel purchased before 1 July 2010, providing EGCS eligibility criteria are met.
Eligibility for Energy Grants Credit

• the activity must be road transport (that is, vehicles must be registered for use on a public road)
  There is no entitlement for a fuel grant for unblended biodiesel used off road
• applies to alternative fuels including biodiesel, or
• a biodiesel component of a blend of biodiesel and diesel
  (a grant for the biodiesel component of a blend will not be permitted if there is an entitlement to a fuel tax credit on the entire amount of the fuel because the blend meets a certain standard)
  – for more information on fuel blends visit www.ato.gov.au/fuelschemes
• the alternative fuel must be used in vehicles weighing:
  – over 20 tonnes gross vehicle mass (GVM) operating in all areas; and
  – at least 4.5 tonnes GVM and less than 20 tonnes GVM only when operating outside of or across defined metropolitan boundaries.
  The metropolitan boundaries do not apply to emergency vehicles, primary producers and buses using alternative fuels.
  .

From 1 JULY 2006

the amount of the grant will reduce over 5 years as shown in the following table.

1 July 20061 July 20071 July 20081 July 20091 July 2010

cents per litre14.808 11.1067.4043.702 0.000

From 1 JULY 2011 fuel tax will be applied to biodiesel.
The rates will increase annually until the final rates are reached on 1 July 2015 as shown in the following table.

1 July 20111 July 20121 July 20131 July 20141 July 2015cents per litre3.8 7.611.4
Source BAA website.

[Terry Syd Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Terry Syd]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

"the activity must be road transport (that is, vehicles must be registered for use on a public road)
There is no entitlement for a fuel grant for unblended biodiesel used off road"

It's been a while since I looked at the legislation, but I recall that the blended biodiesel fuel had to be a blend in which at least 51% of the fuel was petrol diesel. Does that situation still apply?

[rherber1 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close rherber1]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

Sustainability at UWA - Jonathon's Biodiesel

Here you will find the complete documentation as used by Jonathan Thwaites from UWA to set up his own DIY BioD production facility for personal use. I think you would have to admit to feeling a little bit sick in the stomach after reading it when you realise what you have to go through in order to stay on the right side of the tax man.

Ross Herbert

[pangit Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close pangit]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

Gosh they don't make it easy for us to do the right thing. Kudos to Jonathan for actually going through the whole process to stay on the right side of the law. But you can see why a lot of people might not bother (not that I'm one of them of course! )

[Terry Syd Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Terry Syd]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

The amount of red tape doesn't stop with getting started, it continues with the constant record keeping (five years worth has to be kept) and the continuing excise payments. That is itself is enough to dissuade people from getting in the system.

The Government could simplfy things by having a yearly 'permit'. Say pay X amount of dollars and that would allow a person to make up to a given amount of biodiesel per year, $XX for a larger amount, etc.

Then the Government would get some cash flow, and the brewers wouldn't have to spend so much time being accountants.

The intense record keeping would only be necessary for those seeking the rebate. The brewers that don't care about meeting 'Standards' (they use the brew in their own vehicles) could continue making low conversion fuel under the permit system.

I know, I know, too rational for Canberra!

[rherber1 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close rherber1]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

The amount of red tape doesn't stop with getting started, it continues with the constant record keeping (five years worth has to be kept) and the continuing excise payments. That is itself is enough to dissuade people from getting in the system.

The Government could simplfy things by having a yearly 'permit'. Say pay X amount of dollars and that would allow a person to make up to a given amount of biodiesel per year, $XX for a larger amount, etc.

Then the Government would get some cash flow, and the brewers wouldn't have to spend so much time being accountants.

The intense record keeping would only be necessary for those seeking the rebate. The brewers that don't care about meeting 'Standards' (they use the brew in their own vehicles) could continue making low conversion fuel under the permit system.

I know, I know, too rational for Canberra!

Methinks it has more to do with protecting the status quo and the dinosaur oil producers. The Fed Govt has done everything possible to discourage the little people from making their own alternative fuels quite deliberately.

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: The ATO issue - Is the Taxman going to chase you?

Methinks it has more to do with protecting the status quo and the dinosaur oil producers. The Fed Govt has done everything possible to discourage the little people from making their own alternative fuels quite deliberately.

Methinks you have hit the nail squarely on the head.
This is not about excise income or fuel quality, it is about CONTROL!
Control of the populace.
Can be done through Fear, Fear of people who throw babies overboard, Fear of Moslems who will terrorise you, Fear of being caught making your own booze or fuel.

Our PM is a master of the PR machuine and despite being proven a liar in many circumstances, he still comes up smelling of roses. Why?