40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

I posted a question on their facebook page on how the truck build was going, and strangely it seems to have been deleted. You only see really positive things on their Facebook site, and no details of the vehicle at all.

Disappointing they've gone underground with this stuff really, it would have been great to assist them and share their journey.

Tim

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

I found this on their Facebook page today

"Controlled chaos as we get everything ready for Hobart departure on Sunday."

Their website is Green Way Up

Tim

[bob@thegreenwayup.com Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close bob@thegreenwayup.com]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

Firstly, my apologies to everyone for going under the radar for so long - we've been absolutely flat chat the past three months preparing the vehicle/processor and out on the road, 5 weeks and 6500kms into it now. No petrol stations

To give you a quick wrap up, we've now travelled from south east cape in tasmania to oodnadatta in south Australia with more dramas and problems than you can imagine, but nothing we haven't been able to deal with. Some would argue that our first problem/mistake was our choice of vehicle, going with a 01 TD5 land rover defender with 200000kms on the clock (our original vehicle sponsor fell through unfortunately, so out of desperation 10 days before departure we made an impulse buy). Two days before departure I was speaking with a land rover specialist mechanic and asked him about biodiesel in these vehicles, his response: "don't do it, after three tanks of fuel she'll die on you, it's just not worth it." You can imagine what I was thinking after this! Thankfully we've made it through the 3 tank barrier now (impressive too given that we have long range fuel tanks in this thing taking 240L altogether) and everything on the vehicle is operating perfectly.

To quickly summarise the trip so far: tasmania gave us hell with the cold and rain - I spent many a night sitting next to the processor getting drenched trying to heat and dry our oil, bass straight we ran into problems with our motor stopping just shy of half way in 5.1 metre seas (turned out to be a clogged fuel filter which we promptly cleaned - we we're in a homebuilt 6.3m tinny powered by a 3.3L mitsubishi canter motor, great machine..) In melbourne we had a breakdown with our 240V powered pump which I'd bought on the cheap off the internet, coming back to Sydney we ran out of fuel because our consumption had doubled thanks to towing our 2.5 tonne trailer and boat - special mention to geewizztwo who saved the day by meeting up with us and sparing some bio). Byron bay proved a disaster with the rain, it was raining bathtubs and absolutely everything got drenched, it wasn't until Brissy that we could dry everything out and get some decent bio made. Unfortunately we hit a roo at 80 clicks about a week ago which ripped out our wiring to the pump on the trailer, creating a short and cooking our relay to the pump and heating pad - after cleaning up the damage from that small electrical fire we've now got a new relay and wiring in (thankfully there was no further damage, our bull bar just stopped to roo before impact with the intercooler). Now the dust and the corrugations of the outback have started wreaking havoc on the processor, I'll put some shots on facebook for you to look at (that is the best place to see photos of our vehicle/trip).

Here is a good question for the forum to ponder, I've had one bad bout of emulsification where we lost 100L of bio. It was in birdsville QLD where I bubble washing with the water there - bore water... Most likely I'd made a dodgy/incomplete reaction but I also think that the sulphur content in the water may also have had something to do with it - because it was bad, complete right off.

To quickly introduce the processor we are using, it is all mounted on the trailer that we tow. We've been very lucky to gain support from a couple of Aussie companies to put this together, Scintex in QLD and Steri-flow in SA. We have two 200L tanks, one for reacting and one for washing. Both tanks are plumbed into a pump at the base which circulates back into the top of each tank. We have a diesel generator that we run off our bio, this was powering a 240v pump until it broke - now we have a 12v motor that runs off the vehicle powering a 3/4" gear pump provided to us by Scintex - this thing is absolutely bullet proof and has a huge flow rate even powered by our pissy little 12V pump. To heat the oil/bio we are using two 60 plate heat exchangers (also provided by Scintex) which do an amazing job. We have the liquid passing through one side and the exhaust gas from the generator passing through the other. We also use a 2.4Kw heating element to boost heating when in cold areas. However our generator has just died (most likely clogged by bull dust) so we're just running off exhaust heat at the moment. THis is a big prob I have to fix, because we power our zero electric motorcycles off this too and charge all batteries for the camera crew.

The basic process we are using: is to heat to the oil to 55 (homogenising through cycling through the pump), titrate and react. We have steel jerry cans to mix our methoxide in. After introducing the methoxide we cycle it for an hour and settle overnight. Draining off glycerine in the mnorning and letting it settle again the next night. We're then heating the biodiesel and doing a bubble wash whislt on the run - a 12v continuous duty compressor in the back of our vehicle is quick coupled to the base of the washing tank. After draining the water we then do a dry wash using magnesium silicate provided by Scintex - this is hopefully removing all the leftover nasties that we can't remove due to lack of settling. We then have an amazing filter provided to us by Steri-flow, this thing is incredible - a micro filter that averages .3 micron pore size and never clogs. it uses a stainless steel membrane within a unit that we cycle our bio through - transmembrane filtration means it barely get clogged. We'd be stuffed without this thing given the crap that gets in our bio (huge amounts of dust from the back of the vehicle).

I put a drain plug in the bottom of the fuel tank which I have been frequently checking. No glycerine which is great and it is pretty clean fuel we're making, when adding water to these samples we only get slight white clouding in the water.

We're using KOH, I've got a massive 25kg bag which is lasting us. We got methanol from a sprint car racing team in Toowoomba, GW racing. Thankyou. Our next challenge is to find methanol in Alice Springs, we need about 100L - does anyone have any suggestions? Any help would be appreciated.

Happy to chat with anyone about our setup, call us on +61145150132 - it is a sat phone but thanks to optus I can call you right back.

Again my apologies for not making any posts, we've been flat out - every minute I spend making/cleaning bio to keep us going. The best way to follow our progress is to find us on facebook - the green way up. We have heaps of photos here from the trip. If you got questions/comments I'll will get back on the forum soon. Cheers, Bob and the Green Way Up boys,

[surfie Member Find all posts View Profile Close surfie]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

Just saw this article:

A Green Y perspective: The Green Way Up - Success Stories | Switzer

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

They Are Off!

It seems they have obtained quite a bit of sponsorship including the Australian Government, the Indonesian Government and Dick Smith. They also have a film Producer who is actually organising things. They badly need a director. They are showing their adventure in half hour series on pay TV titled "The Aussie Way Up". They are up to program 3 this week.

""The only people who didn't seem too stoked with us were pre-existing biodiesel producers. That's because we're about to publicise the fact anyone can go to a fish and chip shop, take their waste and turn it into fuel."

I missed program 1 but something happened that made them late arriving at their departure point to cross Bass strait. Cooler heads prevailed and they finally decided to waited till the next morning to set off on their first leg of the Bass Strait crossing to "the three Hummocks". Their boat looks kind of like of a small WWII Higgins boat with the steering wheel and inboard engine at the very back.

Program 2.
The following morning they awoke to find that sometime during the night the ignition switch got turned on and their battery was flat. According to one of the fellows, he had checked twice during the night and the switch was in the proper position but in the morning it was turned on.
As the only people on the island were them, their support crew and the two permanent residents of the island, I think it was probably penguins that turned the ignition switch on. Fortunately they have a "Support" boat so there was a spare battery.
As they were changing the battery it blew up in a very impressive manner. "Yes Virginia, Batteries do produce hydrogen and can blow up" Anyway, noone was hurt and they got a new battery installed and were off. Two Hours out and the engine stopped in the middle of a big Swell.
The driver of the support boat tells them they have to cover their engine. Otherwise water will wash over the stern and flood the engine. and that was the end of that episode.

Program 3 (last Night)
The intrepid explorers have gotten their engine restarted and the producer is telling them in no uncertain terms that they will turn around and go back to Tassie. I think she had no intention of having them die while she is in charge.
After a few tantrums the lads do as they are told and the rest of the show is meaningless wandering around trying to find a larger support ship that would be able to tow them across Bass Strait and the obligatory profanity.
They end taking the Spirit of Tasmania to Melbourn to continue their voyage.

Their latest post Episode 3- Party time says;"At this point in time, we’d only put ourselves through one week of the Green Way Up Challenge – from the bottom of Tassie to Sydney. About 2000kms without a petrol station to get this far, too easy."

They really really need to get a director. The only reason I am now watching it is to see what else goes wrong. It is a real laugh

[Captaincademan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captaincademan]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

It sounds like they would benefit from a little more grey hair on the trip.

There aint nothing as good as first hand simple mechanical know how.

Shame they didnt take my earlier advice and drive their car and trailer across the plenty highway. That would have sorted a lot of their teething problems right there.

In some places I think diesel will be easier to source than vege oil. Logistics will be biggest hurdle I am positive.

Awesome adventure, dont get me wrong, but I fail to see how the show will benefit the biodiesel / alternative fuel community. If anything It may highlight just how difficult it is build, maintain / improve a processor with limited mechanical knowledge and hand skills.

The trip (if successful) i am tipping will cost 5 times their original budget.

I'm a negative bugger arent I?

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

And they have cleared up a misunderstanding I have had with their latest posting "from the bottom of Tassie to Sydney. About 2000kms without a petrol station to get this far, too easy."

I was of the understanding that the trip was all about travelling using only biodiesel. Clearly that is not the case.

[SUZUDDIS Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close SUZUDDIS]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

I'm all for letting people know how easy it is to make Bio Diesel. who isn't really but I don't run around in the street telling everyone that the car that they have will work on Bio. Why not get together with a few mates over a beer and work out how to make a few quid and promote a new business.
I see no new information that was discovered , no updates on the web page or posts on the Biofuesls forum.
Not trying to be negative but thought I'd see more updates than what's about.

Michael

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

They didn't even make it out of Tasmania.

[Captaincademan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captaincademan]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

I havent been following it Tilly, is that right? so all their hype amounted to nothing? was the sponsorship money returned????

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

Hi Cade,

Their biodiesel boat broke down in Bass Strait and they had to turn around and catch the ferry to Melbourne. That occured in program 4 and 5.
They are just pretending that part never happened

For some unknown reason they bought a land rover defender at the last minute and had frequent problems with it.
They had fuel supply and quality problems and several times resorted to begging some from people they met along the way.
In the end their land rover just stopped and they were forced to hire another diesel vehicle and tow it the rest of the way to Darwin.
Not to mention all the running around the support vehicles had to do to keep their biodiesel car somewhere on shchedule.

[Captaincademan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captaincademan]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

By the sound of that it was a total failure.

The quote you mention earlier from them that said that we didnt like what they were doing because it was EASY FOR ANYONE to just go to a fish and chip shop and make bio really rang true didnt it?

if it was so easy why did they have all these problems?

if they were serious about it, they would have consulted subject matter experts and listened to their advice, before wasting everyones money and time.

Now if I needed Biodeisel experts, where would I go for advice????

Maybe I would try to talk to people who have been doing it for decades and get their advice?

I just cant think of anywhere off the top of my head.... anyone got any ideas???


Putting aside all the snide remarks I just made, if you are a newby reading this and want to give it a go, by all means do, just look into it first properly, take a measured approach after consulting people who are helpful and knowledgable on the subject and be prepared to make mistakes. Just try not to make the kind of mistake that stops your injector pump!!

[WesleyB Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close WesleyB]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

Within the past year the USA military has tested running ships on algae derived synthetic fuel. They paid 26 american dollars for a gallon. Then mixed it 50/50 with what was probably 4 dollar a gallon diesel fuel. So that's about 15 dollars a gallon or 4 dollars a litre. The Australian military might try it. I suppose the Chinese are doing it.

[peter1 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close peter1]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

I can't believe how many supporters and how much money this Farce and utter debacle managed to get.

It really is more of an insult to the things it supposedly stands for. Pretty evident it was nothing more than a pi$$ up and and a holiday funded by other peoples money under the good old green environmental banner. Honestly I think it was more of a success as a con job than anything else.

I looked at the site and the preparation updates are frequent and numerous. Once they get underway they fall off markedly. No doubt there was lots less to post whilst trying to hide their stuff ups and poor planning. I know some people whom had something to do with helping these guys and there is a lot more to their mistakes than ever was made known.

Tilly, I think you and I are the not so smart ones though. Why the hell aren't we planning some trip somewhere and getting all these sponsors to pay for it? Geez, we'd even have the ability to get where we said we were going and prolong the fun and finish the trip let alone get what, 1/4 of the way if that? Makes me wonder if there ever really were planning on leaving Oz?

I see on their site there is some mention of a second series. Wonder it that will ever happen and if it does how far they will get this time?
I see no merit in " giving something a go" when from the start it was totally i'll conceived and blind freddy could see was doomed to failure.
Mistakes like running short of fuel because they they didn't take into account the increased consumption of towing are inexcusable and show they were no more qualified to make the trip than fly to the moon.

What s clearly evident as the success of this exercise is the parties and sucking people in more than any achivement towards their actual stated environmental goal.

Now, I need to sit down and hatch up some Bio/ green scheme to look all trendy and get grants and donations for.
Anyone got any ideas and want to get on the junket?
Maybe I could throw a Small 2L diesel engine in a motorbike and do the big lap towing a trailer and run the bike on veg?
Maybe I'm thinking too practical and not grandiose enough?

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

Do not think small - Lets run a Road train around Oz before taking it to the Olympics - All on used cooking oil, or biodiesel if that is your preference - at least a pantec trailer will be big enough to make a decent batch of biodiesel in it. We could even make some beer money delivering freight en-route. Perhaps one of the liquid oil suppliers would be interested in a Green Delivery of oil around Oz?

Probably too late to plan for the London Olympics (even the disabled Olympics are too close now) - What other big draw card event is on the horizon?

Regards,
Tony