40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

[Captaincademan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captaincademan]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

I really think that those who gave money to these fellas should demand it back as they really took it under false terms. It was a complete boondoggle. They did nothing for the movement, infact I bet they just helped a heap of negative diesel mechanics justify their anti-bio rhetoric.

Such a shame.

[peter1 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close peter1]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

Do not think small - Lets run a Road train around Oz before taking it to the Olympics - All on used cooking oil, or biodiesel if that is your preference - at least a pantec trailer will be big enough to make a decent batch of biodiesel in it. We could even make some beer money delivering freight en-route. Perhaps one of the liquid oil suppliers would be interested in a Green Delivery of oil around Oz?

Probably too late to plan for the London Olympics (even the disabled Olympics are too close now) - What other big draw card event is on the horizon?

Regards,
Tony

You are right Tony, I was short changing the opportunity presented.

Dunno about a pantech but what about an old Bus?
I thought something like This may Suffice:

2007 Swagman Next Generation 3300 Series Gold/Gun Metal Grey 6sp A Motor Camper | eBay

Bing the size it is we wont have room for bio making on board so perhaps we could just get an old trailer for the dirty work to get by. Something like this might do:

DTR 8m Enclosed Sports Trailer "Australian Made" | eBay

Rough I know but as long as it gets us round you can't bee too choosy when your blowing other peoples money on a hairbrained scheme.

We'd get round so that would give us a lot more cred than some others anyway.

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

Come on Grumpy old men......

Remember when we had hair brained ideas? Apart from the ones we still have.. :-)
Remember when the world was new and full of exciting ideas, and we knew enough to know something?
Remember when we had passions about making a difference, and our friends were less ignorant than us and egged us along?

Sure they haven't got far
Sure they could have used this forum much more
Sure they've done some dumb things

But GOM's this is what the world is like now, social media, spreading ideas really really fast. They got onto Sunrise and promo'ed the idea. Does Sunrise audience know they haven't got out of Australia? Probably not, but in today's media, that doesn't matter. They had their series of movies on Discovery Channel, I think. Something on cable TV anyway. Sure we "could" have done something similar. Sure we "could" have moneterised our ideas. But we didn't, because we're GOM's, not Gen Y's.

I'm planning a 5500km desert trek next year taking in Perth, Cocklebiddy, Kintore, Canning Stock Route and Wiluna all on WVO. I've not got the first clue how to promote stuff with social media, nor to make money out of such a road trip. I don't think anyone would be interested in a movie of my doings, but if the Leyland brothers thought like that, how many of us would be out in the countryside exploring stuff now?

We might not be amazed by what we do, but millions of people wouldn't have a clue how to step outside the square, to take risks, and to push the boundaries. Let the guys have a go.

Tim

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

They had a go and did not even get out of Tasmania... but they pretend they did. Everything they write says they did. Their series is running over and over again on pay TV. It is on right now as I type.

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

On their Facebook site they have a whole lot of photos of them travelling through to Alice Springs, towing their trailer and stories of the troubles they had with dust etc.

There was some story about having a problem in their boat crossing Bass Strait - what does the series say???


And didn't they post back to the forum saying they had got fuel from a couple of forum members in Vic/NSW??

Tim

[83Patrol Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close 83Patrol]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

One of the funnier posts I've read in a while - I actually laughed out loud! (I assume/hope it was in jest)

Do not think small - Lets run a Road train around Oz before taking it to the Olympics - All on used cooking oil, or biodiesel if that is your preference - at least a pantec trailer will be big enough to make a decent batch of biodiesel in it. We could even make some beer money delivering freight en-route. Perhaps one of the liquid oil suppliers would be interested in a Green Delivery of oil around Oz?

Probably too late to plan for the London Olympics (even the disabled Olympics are too close now) - What other big draw card event is on the horizon?

Regards,
Tony

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

The series shows them turning around, returning to Tasmania and catching the Ferry to Melbourne. So much for travelling from Tassie to Darwin on Biodiesel.
If you have a look at Bob's post to this thread on 13 May 2011 all he says about it is;
"bass straight we ran into problems with our motor stopping just shy of half way in 5.1 metre seas (turned out to be a clogged fuel filter which we promptly cleaned - we we're in a homebuilt 6.3m tinny powered by a 3.3L mitsubishi canter motor, great machine..)" No mention of going back to Tassie and catching the ferry to Melbourne.

There was some story about having a problem in their boat crossing Bass Strait - what does the series say???
Tim

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

Okay, Ta.

I was wondering why they would turn back if they were half way over and had rectified the problem - then read the bit about 5 metre seas in a 6.3m tinny. Eeek!

T

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

I saw the program and it did not look like 5 meter seas.
The reason they turned around was because the boat's engine quit and the producer and especially the captain of the support boat thought their boat was not up to it. The engine was right in the stern of the boat with no cover over it so a big wave could have washed over the engine. More importantly they were likely to be late to the official launch party in Sydney and the producer was not going to allow that to happen.

To be fair, the fellow who built the boat was dead set to continue even if the boat sank. They had restarted the engine and as far as he was concerned they were going to Melbourne or drown trying. The Producer vetoed him and made him turn around.
The height of the seas was not the problem.

[peter1 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close peter1]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

"Sure we "could" have done something similar. Sure we "could" have moneterised our ideas. But we didn't, because we're GOM's, not Gen Y's. "

Well I'll certainly admit I had no idea it would be so easy to get other people to pay for my fun and games so they have me there.
I'd have thought that serious undertakings would have been different, but for a farce like this, that's something I never would have imagined.

The main reason I wouldn't/ haven't done it other than that ( and my own poverty which was a mistake to think I'd have to pay for it apparently) is not so much being a GOM but the fact I'd be worried about the legal implications and I am not one that is concerned by legalities normally but then again I have never taken handouts for doing something I have failed in through terrible ignorance and poor planning.

And 3rdly, I would have never even contemplated doing this trip on Bio. It was just plain bloody stupid and completely ignorant. Exactly where did they think they were going to get meth and KOH in the top end of Australia let alone the places they were planning on going once they got out of Oz. I think most people who have been doing Bio a while would be rightfully very cautious about the idea so the fact some newbs thought they could manage it was ignorance personified!

So I'd say being a GOM is replying to this post and my position as above.
Not doing something like this trip however I would give myself credit as having moe common sense, knowing what I was undertaking, the obvious problems associated with it, and not in the least, a Good helping of honesty when it mattered with other peoples money and keeping my word.

Now that said, I would actually be prepared to do something like this if I could come up with the right gimmick for it.
I'd love to go round Oz at someone else's expense. I know plenty of people have done it by car ( not that that ought to stop a good media Gimmick) but perhaps doing it on a bike is less done.
Maybe there is some company that would like to donate a vehicle for the trip to show it's resilience to crap fuels or as a reliability trial?

I would genuinely be up for something like this next year If I could find the angle and support. Reckon I could get a few friends involved as well. Who wouldn't want a free holiday?

I'd love to know the financials of this and how it worked out. Did they make any money from the sales of the film and was it viable financially or did someone ( other than the sponsors) loose their shirt on it?

[Tim-HJ61 Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tim-HJ61]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

You're right Peter1 - what you're saying is my point - it's a different world, this marketing and promotion gig. Not saying we're not good at stuff, just that what we don't have much of a clue about is turning it into a financial advantage for us.

That's a type of cleverness that some people have always 'got', and the rest of us haven't.

I suspect that any money they might make might cover their costs, maybe. I figure that there's no easy money in these things. I've just finished reading Charlie Boorman's book called 'by any means' where he and a cameraman, and a mate, travelled from the UK to Sydney using several hundred different transports, from bikes to elephants to buses etc etc etc. Then he wrote a book about it. No doubt there's a DVD. Because of his 'fame' of Long Way Round with Ewan McGregor and other similar exploits, he becomes the marketable commodity. Like Top Gear. They have some knowledge about their product, but what they are selling is the entertainment. I've not seen any of the Long Way Up series, but they're all fit looking young chaps with a kooky idea that they've been able to do 'something' with. Sadly, we're not as marketable or attractive to an audience. It's reality TV entertainment.

Like I said, it's a different world!

Tim

[bob@thegreenwayup.com Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close bob@thegreenwayup.com]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

As a subscriber to this thread I’ve been able to read all of your comments about our journey; not sure how I should feel about your thoughts and comments – guilt and regret I suppose. Appreciate the feedback nonetheless; constructive or not, I am taking it all on board.

It took an understanding comment to drag me out of the woodwork. Tim, I appreciate you giving us a go.

There have been a lot of accusations thrown at us; I’d like to offer my perspective on our journey and TV series. In particular, I’d like to try and defend myself against the accusations of “pretending, covering up, con jobbing, sucking people in, lying, joyriding, being a farce and being a total failure.” Being bloody stupid and completely ignorant is something I’ll cop (although worded a bit stronger than I’d like!)

Firstly, I admit that our online communication has been lacking; I’m sure this is the reason for such aggressive and derogatory comments I’ve seen in this thread. Our fault; we’ve been very slack updating our website, Facebook page and very, very slack with our ‘tweeting.’ As Gen-Y this is what we’re meant to be good at – we certainly have let ourselves down here and I’ll explain our reasons why later (or at least try to). However, I don’t feel our lack of online communication is an excuse to make unfounded and misinformed accusations – these I will defend.

To share the bigger picture, The Green Way Up (GWU) concept was born four years ago, long story short it’s goal is to ‘create conversations’, specifically about the environment and sustainability. That is all: to get people talking – Gen-Y connecting with Gen-Y. Biodiesel is our “gimmick” (as another members inferred) that gives us an interest piece for TV broadcast: the ability to drive around without filling up at a petrol station is interesting to the general population.

I want to respond to what peeves me the most first; the accusation that we were on “a holiday funded by other peoples money.” The statement “I can’t believe how many supporters and how much money this Farce and utter debacle managed to get.” I’d like to argue this comment: “I really think that those who gave money to these fellas should demand it back as they really took it under false terms.” You would “love to know the financials of this and how it turned out,” let me tell you…

Cash contributions made to our cause were those by government organisations (yes, you’re dead right there Tilly – well done mate), Tourism Australia and Tourism WA put cash behind us, not to promote biodiesel as a fuel source, but to showcase Australia and WA through a television series. We delivered a 12 part series which is currently airing on the Nat Geo network in 123 countries around the world, with more to come. I’m only privy to Australian ratings: 550000 odd views, it’s fair to say that over 12 episodes we reached an audience of 45800 individuals. For the modest cash contribution made, I would imagine Tourism Australia and WA are very happy with their investments. We delivered; they got scenes in Tassie, Bass Strait, Melbourne, Canberra, Sydney, country NSW, Byron, Brissy, Noosa, the Simpson, Alice, the Tanami, the Kimberly, Darwin, countless Native wildlife, etc, etc, etc – I could write a thesis on the Aussie landscape/fauna we showcased. This money was most certainly not taken under ‘false terms,’ the accusation alone makes me want to vomit (and I was labelled completely ignorant.) Certain biofuels forum folk must remember: you are viewing our project specifically through the lens of an experienced biodiesel producer – the GWU project has so many more facets to it.

Yes, Dick Smith did provide us with a small cash contribution. This was given as a donation; we were not required to return any deliverables… Yes, we did publicize his support in an attempt to gain more sponsor support, give us a bit of credibility – and we did put his logo on our website in gratitude.

Other support contributed to our project didn’t come as cash, just to name a few:
Hilton Hotels: put us up for a few nights. We gave them considerable air time; a good scene showing one of their sustainability initiatives.
Helly Hanson: gave us a modest pile of clothes. They got stickers and product placement – what they asked for.
OneSteel: Cost price aluminium to build our boat and trailer; they were bloody legends, just happy to help us out
Steri-Flow: a Micro-filter. Not naming names, but the owner of this company was a dead set legend, sent me a microfilter and instructions – then kept in touch, genuinely interested in our endeavours – not seeking any kind of payback.
Scintex Engineering Solutions: A huge amount of supplies and parts to build and operate our processor. Their support came at a time when we were so close to being broke; in my opinion it was only because of Scintex that we could continue. This is the only sponsor who I feel may not have received the return on investment they’d hoped for. I am so appreciative of what these guys did for us in a dark hour and we will continue to display their logo and feature their products in a second & third series (if we ever get to it – which I will talk about). They have never communicated any discontent with our relationship; I would do everything I could to rectify the situation if they did. Again, the help these guys gave us was game changing and I am so appreciative – buy their products!
Optus: satellite phone and internet. They got a dedicated TV scene giving us the goods and heaps of signage.
Zero Motorcycles: Two electric dirt bikes. Again, a dedicated scene and plenty of appearances by their bikes.

There were so many more supporters; businesses, organisations, family friends… I feel strongly about this: we didn’t con, suck in, lie or joyride on any of this support. I honestly feel like those who supported us did because they wanted to – none of them have “demanded” anything back from us, if they do I will be devastated and do everything I can to fix it.

As for the “financials of this and how it worked out,“ the whole exercise was funded almost completely by our own pockets. Without delving into it too far, cash contributions from tourism Aus, WA and Dick amounted to less than 15% of total cost; the boys and I forked out everything we had and put it into this project. We each took out bank loans, put in all our savings, drew a company loan and worked our credit cards. By the time we realised our costs weren’t going to be covered by sponsors it was already too late for us, we couldn’t pull out; we were almost 18 months into planning, had told family and friends that we were doing it and were completely committed in our own minds. By all means call us stupid and naďve for pursing it, I now know this better than any of you; but after 18 months of dedication emotion begins to play into things. The result for all of us was a financial battering; upon arriving in Darwin I was paying off personal loans using a second credit card I’d taken out. Collectively the boys and I are still well into 6 figures of debt – and we didn’t sell the TV series for anything near what it cost to make: testimony again to our stupidity, ignorance and naivety – I’ll happily cop that.

Being accused of “taking a holiday funded by other peoples money” makes me sick; it’s so far from the truth. If I hadn’t pursued GWU I’d be so far ahead financially and would easily be able to afford ten similar journeys; I’d hate to think what my bank account would look like if I hadn’t sunk everything into GWU but instead maintained a full time engineering job for four years.

Who was looking to “hatch up some Bio/ green scheme to look all trendy and get grants and donations for”? Being accused of pulling off a ‘successful con’ myself, maybe I can offer some advice. If you’d “love to go round Oz at someone else’s expense” unfortunately I can’t help you.

We’ve been accused of “pretending” to make it across Bass Strait in our homebuilt biodiesel boat. I’m confused as to how this conclusion was arrived at? The TV series included all scenes of our failure to cross Bass Strait; from the engine stopping, to turning around, high emotions and finally a scene where we all board the Spirit of Tasmania. We certainly could have covered it up using the power of editing, but we didn’t. Do I need to announce our failure on the biofuels forum in order to be truthful and not ‘pretend’? Is an international TV series not enough? Yes, we have been slack updating our website and Facebook – the financial drain this project has imposed on all of us has drawn our attention away from it. If I had the time to sit around and edit/update the website I would, but reality is I’m currently somewhat disillusioned with the whole thing; it’s been a lot more costly and draining that first expected. Again, a testimony to my ignorance, nativity and I suppose my inability to follow through with things…

Whilst I’m on the topic of ‘pretending’ to make it across Bass Strait, here is a quote from myself, from this very forum thread, posted during the expedition on May 13th:
“…bass straight we ran into problems with our motor stopping just shy of half way in 5.1 metre seas (turned out to be a clogged fuel filter which we promptly cleaned - we we're in a homebuilt 6.3m tinny powered by a 3.3L mitsubishi canter motor, great machine..)”
OK, I didn’t elaborate and flat out say we failed. But reality was at the time we were all under strict instructions from the producer not to tell anyone about what happened, family included – save the story for the TV series. That’s what I was working with; I probably posted more than I should have. Certainly no pretending – why are we being accused of it?

Yes, they were 5.1 metre seas. No lies here to pump up the drama; I invite you to go through historical meteorological reports – look for “Far Northwest Coast” off Tassie, 17/04/11.

Yes we talked about Tassie to Darwin on biodiesel – but that was before we took off, that was the goal. When we failed to cross Bass Strait we began talking about traveling 12000kms around Aus without filling up at a petrol station, every state and territory. This isn’t a lie or a con – but admittedly it is a clever spin. The odo was zeroed when the tank was run dry at the start and the first drop of bio was poured in – definitely no lies about the distance travelled on bio.

Yes we did buy a TD5 Defender. Hindsight is such a beautiful thing; if I’d known about the extreme injection pressures of this motor and its miniscule tolerances I never would have gone with it. My “stuff up and poor planning,” I’ll cop that. But here’s the full story: 20 odd days out before the expedition we were given the bad news that our vehicle sponsor was pulling out – I had properly planned for this vehicle, even testing 200L of my bio in it months before. 12 days before departure I missed out on an 83 4WD canter truck. Desperation ensued and I bought our defender 10 days out; at the time it was the only vehicle I was seeing on carsales capable of dragging the 4 of us, our gear and our boat around – she + boat weighed in at 7.2 tonnes at a truck stop between Mel and Syd! Well over load limit - proving my stupidity again?

The defender did stop in the Kimberley and we did end up towing it 1300kms behind a diesel rental running bio - all the way to Darwin, with a snatch strap – utter stupidity, I know. For those who have watched the series you would have seen some of the other options we considered; ahead of walking, it genuinely was our only option. I understand that for many of you the biggest gripe you have with GWU is the bad name we have given biodiesel. Personally I disagree that we’ve given bio, or ‘the movement,’ a bad name; in the last episode I made it very clear that the breakdown was not by fault of the bio – but rather an electrical problem. I probably could have put it better, but I was bloody exhausted. At the time 3 mechanics individually diagnosed the defenders problem as electrical/ECU – this was shown in the series; that’s what I ran with – I knew no better. Turns out it was a completely different issue – to be told another time.

Yes we did take biodiesel from other producers along our journey – it didn’t take away from our goal of ‘not filling up at a petrol station.’ To say we ‘begged’ for the biodiesel is a bit extreme in my opinion, each donation was offered and willingly handed over; but to be honest, I would have begged. I was working under an external time pressure – we had deadlines to meet, we were paying a film crew by the day, we had meetings to get to and we had arrangements in place… All these things contributed to making my life hell keeping sufficient fuel in the tank. Before you slam me with accusations of incompetence, just remember that we were averaging 200kms per day, stupidly self-imposed – consuming about 30L/day. It wasn’t easy to keep up this supply on the road and that’s why everything did grind to a halt from time to time – but never did I stop trying. If you genuinely believe there is “no merit in giving something a go when from the start it was totally ill-conceived,” that’s fair enough – just know that you are the kind of person I have absolutely no desire to meet. I’m sure even ‘blind Freddy’ can appreciate that sometimes a solid plan is interrupted by the unexpected (like a car sponsor pulling out!)

Yes, maybe I should have asked for more advice from this forum – part result of my own arrogance. Truth told, I actually did receive help from a few members; those who messaged me and personally offered their assistance. Help isn’t solely delivered through online public forums, forgotten the days of good old face-to-face time? I met with one member and still to this day appreciate the immense help he was; I realise now how he’d thrown me a paddle when I was stupidly far up the creek. He knows exactly who he is and I’ve thanked him numerous times by phone and email – I don’t think he feels the need to be publically thanked on this forum; and knowing how blindly aggressive some members can be I’d actually hate to drag him into it.

Whilst on the topic of using the forum for help, I do actually have a 30 odd page research assignment on biodiesel that is due soon; desperately need someone who knows biodiesel to play devil’s advocate. Please let me know if you’re interested in reading it.

Never did we say it was easy to make fuel on the road? Maybe this has been misinterpreted; we definitely communicated how easy it was to find WVO when traveling. Correct me if I’m wrong here.

In our vehicle we carried 120L of methanol in six jerries and a 20kg bag of KOH. This gave us a max range of about 4000kms in our vehicle. We planned to restock along the way and YES, of course we researched where we can source the goods – longest leg was 2300 kms from Asia to Middle East.

There are more photos of the Aussie outback than Tassie on our Facebook page for one simple reason: the producer took more photos in the outback. No hidden agendas, to pretending, no cover ups… We quite simply have more photos from the outback.

Yes we are trying to get a second series off the ground; we are still paying off the first leg, this must be settled first. If we can get sufficient funding to begin part 2 we’ll go whole heartedly. But if we never get the funding needed we can’t commit ourselves to another financial nightmare; you’ve gotta give us credit for learning a lesson here – we have learnt from our mistakes. You must know: all of us boys commit hour upon hour of unpaid work each week into planning part two and seeking sponsorship money – none of us have given up.

Peter1, you know someone who had something to do with helping us –‘there were a lot more mistakes than ever were known?’ Mate, I’d love to hear from you directly; it seems you of all people think we need all the help we can get, please offer it – I will definitely take it on-board.

Some forum members need to remember that all but 10-20 of our 48,500 strong Aussie viewership do not have an intimate knowledge of biodiesel production. 99.969% are not judging us on our ability to make biodiesel; instead, the majority of our audience is interested in the journey itself - the attempt to cross Aus without filling up at a petrol station and the successes and failures that come with it – admittedly mostly hurdles, but that’s what makes interesting viewing. We’re an entertainment provider, not an education house. I would suggest that 99% of our TV audience don’t know much about biodiesel – a vast majority may not have even heard of it. Maybe in the eyes of a biodiesel producer we have been ‘negative’ for the ‘movement’; but for the overwhelming majority of our viewers we have opened their eyes to an alternative fuel source, increased the profile of biodiesel, created conversations about sustainability and proven that one can travel around the country without filling up at a petrol station – certainly not without problems.

If you feel we have given biodiesel a bad name I understand and I am sorry. I am sorry that the journey and TV series ended the way it did, know that it wasn’t intentional – just an unfortunate breakdown so close to the finish line. Personally, I feel that we have shown biodiesel as an alternative fuel and greatly lifted its profile – put it in front of at least 48480 more people. This is where I hope Scintex eventually finds value in our relationship; not from us teaching people how to make biodiesel, but instead making people aware of it – these people might get involved, expand the market of buyers.

GWU showed a large audience that biodiesel can power a vehicle over 11000kms around Australia through all sorts of climates and environments. A biodiesel brewer could say the project was a complete failure, one DID say the project was a complete failure – Yes, we might not have achieved our goal; but looking back at what we did achieve, I don’t see GWU as a total failure.

I feel some members need to do their homework before slamming us with accusations; I do take them all on board and they do have negative impact. So many comments were made without any consideration for the bigger picture - consideration for what’s happening outside of the biodiesel producing community. I don’t feel any regret or guilt for pursuing GWU – if that’s what you want me to feel you’re gonna have to try harder.

Remember, this is all just a humble response from my corner; I’m certainly not throwing down my glove at anyone. Appreciate the feedback and conversation guys. Do let me know if I can help you hatch some scheme - or help you con sponsors into funding a holiday...

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

Hi Bob, good to see you here. I will share a few of my thoughts with you now and maybe some more later on.

Firstly, I admit that our online communication has been lacking; I’m sure this is the reason for such aggressive and derogatory comments I’ve seen in this thread.

I do not think that has anything to do with it.

We’ve been accused of “pretending” to make it across Bass Strait in our homebuilt biodiesel boat. I’m confused as to how this conclusion was arrived at?

Not a confusion. For instance everything I read goes along these lines taken from your Green Way Up website in episode three it says:
“At this point in time, we’d only put ourselves through one week of the Green Way Up Challenge – from the bottom of Tassie to Sydney. About 2000kms without a petrol station to get this far, too easy.”

After reading this thread I now understand that after you failed to make it from Tassie to the mainland on biodiesel which was your original stated goal you quietly changed the goal from travelling all the way on biodiesel to not stopping at a petrol station.

The TV series included all scenes of our failure to cross Bass Strait; from the engine stopping, to turning around, high emotions and finally a scene where we all board the Spirit of Tasmania.

That is true. However, if you had not actually seen that episode, everything that I have seen written about it actually suggests you did make it from Tassie to the mainland: “from the bottom of Tassie to Sydney. About 2000kms without a petrol station to get this far, too easy.”

Do I need to announce our failure on the biofuels forum in order to be truthful and not ‘pretend’? Is an international TV series not enough?

I see nowhere where you have “announced” it was a failure. I see a lot of places where it is suggested that you were successful.

Whilst I’m on the topic of ‘pretending’ to make it across Bass Strait, here is a quote from myself, from this very forum thread, posted during the expedition on May 13th:
“…bass straight we ran into problems with our motor stopping just shy of half way in 5.1 metre seas (turned out to be a clogged fuel filter which we promptly cleaned - we we're in a homebuilt 6.3m tinny powered by a 3.3L mitsubishi canter motor, great machine..)”
OK, I didn’t elaborate and flat out say we failed.

There was not even a hint that you had failed. ” turned out to be a clogged fuel filter which we promptly cleaned” which would make me think that the engine stopping was but a trifle, the filter was promptly cleaned and you were on your way again.

Yes, they were 5.1 metre seas.

If you say so.

Yes we talked about Tassie to Darwin on biodiesel – but that was before we took off, that was the goal. When we failed to cross Bass Strait we began talking about traveling 12000kms around Aus without filling up at a petrol station, every state and territory.

Now I see. Once you failed to achieve your stated goal you changed the goal but did not tell anyone.

This isn’t a lie or a con – but admittedly it is a clever spin.

I guess some people would call changing your stated goal without telling anyone a “clever spin” and I am sure you are comfortable with it.

Yes we did buy a TD5 Defender. Hindsight is such a beautiful thing; if I’d known about the extreme injection pressures of this motor and its miniscule tolerances I never would have gone with it.

This is the part I still fail to understand. It seemed to me like you guys just said lets pick the most unreliable Diesel Dualcab Utility available in Australia to do the trip in.
All you had to do was ask here. There are several people on this forum who actually know a bit about all of this.

The defender did stop in the Kimberley and we did end up towing it 1300kms behind a diesel rental running bio - all the way to Darwin,

I am surprised you got that far. They have a terrible reputation for reliability.

I understand that for many of you the biggest gripe you have with GWU is the bad name we have given biodiesel.

That does not worry me. The less people using biodiesel the more oil that will be available for me.

Yes, maybe I should have asked for more advice from this forum

Yes you should have. The attitude I got was was a bunch of young know it all's.
Do you remember this statement?
"The only people who didn't seem too stoked with us were pre-existing biodiesel producers. That's because we're about to publicise the fact anyone can go to a fish and chip shop, take their waste and turn it into fuel."
That actually told me a lot.

[Matt Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Matt]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

Bob, at the risk of attracting criticism myself, good luck to you, you did nothing deceptive so go and have a good time of it all,

We all have to make mistakes, just learn from them. I am impressed with the biodiesel that you use, I am surprised how few issues you really have, nothing too surprising in what you have found.

Matt

[peter1 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close peter1]

Re: 40,000 kms Without Petrol Stations

Bob,
Did you honestly write that reply all on your own without any help, coaching or input from anyone else such as your publicist, Film company or anyone else. I'm really wondering if this is coming from the Bob, one of the 3 musketeers in the video or someone else using that guys name.
If you write it I'm very impressed because frankly it seems waaay to slick for a man of your background to put so eloquently and try to pull all the right strings. You are either qualified by practice or degree in a whole other fields not mentioned on your site Bio.

I have had a bit to do with the media and to me your reply sounds like media spin doctoring all the way.
As such, I'm sorry to say I don't believe a lot of it.
I might be wrong, If I am you are a talented man.
I'd put money on it I am right though and someone else either wrote your response in part or whole or gave you significant instruction on how to approach it.

Firstly, I admit that our online communication has been lacking; I’m sure this is the reason for such aggressive and derogatory comments I’ve seen in this thread. Our fault; we’ve been very slack updating our website, Facebook page and very, very slack with our ‘tweeting.’

Hmm, either this is a fabricated response or you are still so off the mark it isn't funny. I certainly couldn't give a dam about your face waste or twit posts nor do I think people could care less about your postings here. You have not taken a thing on board if that's what you believe.

Being accused of “taking a holiday funded by other peoples money” makes me sick; it’s so far from the truth. If I hadn’t pursued GWU I’d be so far ahead financially and would easily be able to afford ten similar journeys; I’d hate to think what my bank account would look like if I hadn’t sunk everything into GWU but instead maintained a full time engineering job for four years.

Who was looking to “hatch up some Bio/ green scheme to look all trendy and get grants and donations for”? Being accused of pulling off a ‘successful con’ myself, maybe I can offer some advice. If you’d “love to go round Oz at someone else’s expense” unfortunately I can’t help you.

You don't strike me as the kind of guy to get sick over something so easily or even use that kind of phrasing. You seem to be made of much better stuff to me.
In any case, that's what your journey did do in part if not whole. And by your own admittance, your " gimmick" was to attract sponsors and support.

As a matter of interest, who foot the bill for the " Launch Party". Did that come out of you guys pocket?

And lets not forget one small point here... YOU guys WANTED to do this.

I'm confident in assuming no one was holding a gun to your head so if you incoured expenses and had to take out loans for your holiday the same as other people do, I'm not at all sure why you think you should get any credit or sympathy for that?
If I want to go sail a yacht round the world, who the heck do you think should pay for that? If I say I'm going to do it on bio ignoring all the problems with that and set off ignorant and unprepared, do you think someone else should? Should I get credit for giving it a go because I wanted to do it and failed to prepare myself knowledge wise to give myself any chance of success?

This isn’t a lie or a con – but admittedly it is a clever spin.

It's my personal opinion that there is a hell of a lot of "clever spin" ing in this whole thing and your reply.

Your failure to cross bass straight was again through ignorance and stupidity. You simply did not have the knowledge skills or background to do that with any degree of safety and clearly your producer had more smarts in turning back than you guys had ignrance in wanting to press on.
Lucky. The fact is the boat was not suitable for the journey and you put yourselves at great risk and potentialy others through not knowing what you were doing.

The bit with the vehicle was bad luck but again it's one of a whole load of stupid, and that's the only word for them, mistakes.
If you did something wrong that would be expected but what you seem to fail to understand is people are commenting on the whole thing being a comedy of errors from the start. The fact you got away with it and your lives is nothing you'll win sympathy off me for be I a bastard or not.

Yes we did take biodiesel from other producers along our journey – it didn’t take away from our goal of ‘not filling up at a petrol station.’ To say we ‘begged’ for the biodiesel is a bit extreme in my opinion, each donation was offered and willingly handed over; but to be honest, I would have begged. I was working under an external time pressure – we had deadlines to meet, we were paying a film crew by the day, we had meetings to get to and we had arrangements in place… All these things contributed to making my life hell keeping sufficient fuel in the tank. Before you slam me with accusations of incompetence, just remember that we were averaging 200kms per day, stupidly self-imposed – consuming about 30L/day. It wasn’t easy to keep up this supply on the road and that’s why everything did grind to a halt from time to time – but never did I stop trying.

If you genuinely believe there is “no merit in giving something a go when from the start it was totally ill-conceived,” that’s fair enough – just know that you are the kind of person I have absolutely no desire to meet. I’m sure even ‘blind Freddy’ can appreciate that sometimes a solid plan is interrupted by the unexpected (like a car sponsor pulling out!)

Hang on, I'll just get the tissues.
I don't see any issue with getting bio from anyone else except the reasons behind it which was more ignorance, lack of planning and making fundamental mistakes that you should have been well aware of. As for being However many tons overweight, wwell, that's just something else that could have sunk the whole adventure had you got pinged. Had you had an accident and hurt someone, You'd be worrying about a lot more than paying off credit cards.

As for making bio and your life hell, are you trying to gain sympathy for that as well? You don't have to be a bio expert or mechanical genius to crunch the numbers and know what was involved. Again, goes back to an I'll concieved idea from the start. You had 6 months practice making it according to your own writings. You couldn't figure out the difficulties in that time? Are you kidding?

You seem to want sympathy and credit for doing something you had no idea about when you bloody well should have. You are saying you planned this years before but then you are saying you didn't know about all these things?
Ya know what? If you didn't by then you are a fool or you were more interested in having a good time than fulfilling what you said.

You don't want to meet me? That's good because then I can drive right by you on the road when you are out of fuel, broken something because you are overloaded or whatever it is that is a result of your poor planning, prepration and knowledge in what you were doing.
I'll give anyone a hand that has bad luck or I can help to make things easier for them but people that bring problems on themselves that sensible people take steps to avoid are not people I'm interested in putting myself out for.

I think you don't want to meet me because I see through you BS and am not afraid to call it for what it is.
Your plan was not interrupted by a car sponsor pulling out, it was an ill conceived load of crap from the start that never had a chance of success.

Yes, maybe I should have asked for more advice from this forum – part result of my own arrogance.

You should have done more research and prepared yourself better period. Part of why I think and stand by my comment this was a total farce.
There was never any hope of success in what you said you were going to do from the start. But I'm forgetting that was just a Gimmich anyway Right?
How much advise did you take any heed of that you did get from here anyway?

In our vehicle we carried 120L of methanol in six jerries and a 20kg bag of KOH. This gave us a max range of about 4000kms in our vehicle.

Really?

Was that your initial calculated consumption or your revise calculation when you found towing the boat meant you were using tewice ass much fuel as you thought?

By my inexperienced bio making reckoning And poor maths ( both of which I stand to be corrected on by those in the know) that gives you 500L worth of Bio on a good day. I think it's closer to 400 but anyway.
So you are saying that you had a range of 4000 KM with, say, 500l of bio which works out at 8KM/l or 12.5 KM per hundred in a vehicle loaded to the brim, towing a boat with an all up weight of 7.2 tons???
I call bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.
You are either spinning this so hard its going to let go and blow your head off in the centrifugal explosion or you still haven't got a freaking clue what you are on about.

At some point you ditched the boat and took on a trailer.
Still don't see you doing this economy.
A quick google of the fuel consumption for that vehicle shows people are practacily getting around 11.5 to 12.5L/ 100 on DIESEL not towing anything and without a wind sock worth of gear on the roof as well. Of course this is on hard sealed roads and not tracks or sand or anything else.
If you were getting 12.5 towing the trailer with the thing full of gear and you can prove that, then I'm sure land rover will be throwing vehicles at you for your next trip if you approach them.

There is plenty more I could comment on but what I have already and the poor me attitude taken has lost my interest.
I have looked at the website and face waste and it paints a very different picture to what your painting here. I know which one I find a lot more believable.

It's clear this venture and the defence of it is a farce and there is no point in addressing the issues seriously.
You were smart enough to carry it off, good luck to you. Just don't try and insult my intelligence that it was anything but the load of rot it was with contrived replys that are Full of spin and highly subjective and economical with the truth.