98 Land Cruiser Troopy Conversion

[Guest Close David]

Re: 98 Land Cruiser Troopy Conversion

From what I see on this thread, it is all to do with conversions, even if not specifically the conversion of Pauls car.
Frankly, I can't see where there is anything at all wrong with the progression this thread has made... no one has commented on anything that is not related to information pertaining to doing a conversion. Information is being shared, people are learning and gaining valuable knowledge and insight so I don't see a problem. In any normal discussion, people don't only and specifically converse about one specific thing, they expand the conversation to related topics as has been done here.

If a policy of only speaking of the specific topic at the start of the thread were enforced and the moderators broke up the natural progression of the discussion, I think some of the best and most informative discussions of great learning value would have never occoured here and the majority of the valuable info that has been gained by so many would have never come about either.

Personally I think the the sharing of info so people can learn is far more important and what a forum should be about than just making sure people talk about only the specific subject in the title of the thread.

But that is just me.

[Dane Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dane]

Re: 98 Land Cruiser Troopy Conversion

Excellent job as usual Fitian. How about posting a schematic type diagram of the conversion for reference? I too am planning on converting my 1HZ Landcruiser to WVO and I'm sure others would appreciate it also.

[Nuddy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nuddy]

Re: 98 Land Cruiser Troopy Conversion

Stage 2 of the conversion was a 180 litre long range tank. This was fitted by the manufacturers. It was set up with an inline filter, facet pump and 5/16" id fuel hose, to pump from the new rear tank to the old front tank. I supplied 180 litres of filtered oil to fill and test it. - all good so far.

Stage 3 was to remove the start-up tank - (20 litre plastic jerry can in vehicle) and to set up to run on Veg from the new rear tank and petro-diesel from the old front tank for startup. I reconfigured hoses to take the old front tank back to original and connected a new 3/8" id hose to the facet pump outlet - other end to the HE inlet.
All looking good, I 'test drove' the 100 km to Hornsby. Running fine for the first 15km until I approached the freeway and tried to accelerate from 80 kph to 110 kph - no go- fuel starvation! I switched back to petro-diesel and got a surge of power and accelerated smoothly and powerfully up to 110 kph.
I tried going back to veg a few times on the trip but each time the same result - fuel starvation.
I suspected the fuel filter - 7,000 km on veg, maybe it is blocked? On a Sunday in Hornsby all I could get was a Ryco replacement - no Fleetguard.
Made no difference at all on Sunday night's return trip.

Monday morning I removed the inline filter and the facet pump (I thought the pump would compensate for the small fuel line and the inline filter but apparently not) and replaced the fuel line with 3/8"id. The tank outlet pipe was a very tight fit with the 5/16" line but an easy fit with the 3/8" so maybe that should ideally be a bit bigger in the id.

Monday morning's 100 km trip went very well on veg all the way with no apparent fuel starvation. Then on the return some starvation again, not as bad as before but still a good power surge on switching to diesel. I thought it might be the breather hose so I removed the fuel cap - no change.
I tried by-passing the filter and full power returned so I re-fitted the 7000 km fleetguard. Still full power.

It is obvious that the system is marginal. I could replace with 1/2" fuel hose throughout but that doesn't solve the fuel outlet diameter problem at the rear tank.
I think I will order a 'pusher' pump and fit it at the back near the tank outlet, with 3/8" id hose. Then I will re-fit my ryco filter element.

BTW all this fiddling around has allowed me to fully appreciate what an excellent job Fitian did with the original conversion.

Emad,
I have checked all the nuts and bolts and hose clamps etc. - all still tight. Thanks.

Tim added:
Hello Paul,

Your Landcruiser experience is similar to mine and I agree with all your statements.

I have installed 12mm fuel lines and 12 mm ball valves, so the only restriction on the suction side of the lift pump is 300mm of 8mm fuel pickup in the tanks, and a 60 micron mesh filter. My hot oil from the outlet of the IP is T'd back in just prior to the lift pump so once switched over to vege, the lift pump is getting hot oil to blend in with the cold oil from the tanks.

Be really careful about which pusher pump you add. I found the 4 psi facet inadequate on 100% oil and contributed to further problems, not solving a thing. They work okay on blends, but don't use them for 100% oil.

My recommendation is to use 12mm fuel lines, and remove the small screen filter at the end of your pickup line in the tank. Yes you will still have the 8mm pickup, but in time you might get around to replacing it. What you need to do is reduce all the restrictions as much as practical to allow your system to pull back from the critical stage it is at now to one that is as closer to satisfactory.

Even on the pressure side of the lift pump, increase you fuel lines, reduce your restrictions... You're dead right, adequate flow is what we need to aim for.

Tim

1 week later . . . . . .

Thanks Tim,
Yes the 4 psi facet is what they fitted to pump from one tank to the other and it was the major contributor (I believe) to the fuel starvation with its 3/16' id fittings!
I am planning to use a 'Walbro' 6065W 10psi 45 gallon/hour right up the back, minimising 'suction' run.
Thoughts anyone?

and today:

I have been chasing up walbro pumps on the net and find that the recommended model has been discontinued:
Walbro Reciprocating Fuel Pumps

Walbro Reciprocating Fuel Pumps

For many decades, Walbro has made the 2000 Series and 6000 Series fuel pumps. Those pumps were sold with names such as Dupree, Autopluse, AC, Stewart Warner, and Walbro. Those pumps supplied fuel to countless vehicles, boats, stoves, etc. in the past 50 years or so.

Well, the time has come to retire those fuel pump lines. Today's technologies enable Walbro to offer a new design that flows better, requires less current, and doesn't require periodic replacement of a bellows.

STANDARD FEATURES- ALL MODELS
Current requirement: < 2 amps average
Reverse polarity protected up to 60 minutes
Dry run to four (4) hours
Compatible with all commercially available pump grade gasoline, gasohol. diesel or bio-diesel
Operating temperature: -40 ~ +70C (-40 ~ +155F)
Transient voltage protected to 100 volts
U.S. Coast Guard 16623-1 and 16623-2 approved
European CE Standards EN 61000-6-2 and EN 6-3-2100 approved

FRB fuel pumps
Flow: to 225 lph (60 gph)
Self priming (dry lift) up to 48 inches (120 w/ check valve)
Ampere hours: up to 70% less than FRA & FRC
Continuous duty life (diesel fuel): >18000 hrs
Weight: 0.83 kg (1.83 lbs)
Pump cycles only when fuel is demanded
Replaceable filter
Inlet/Outlet fittings are 1/4-18 NPSF
96 hour salt spray test (ASTM B-117)

FRB-5 12V, 45 gal/hr, 8-11 psi pump, w/ two 5/16 hose barb fittings [replaces 6065] $95.00
including US shipping

I have just ordered 2 x FRB-5

One for my troopy and one for my son's Hilux Surf 2.0 TD

[Nuddy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nuddy]

Re: 98 Land Cruiser Troopy Conversion

2 Walbro's arrived today. Cost A$250 total inc' postage.
$125 each. Fitting tomorrow - will report.
Edit:
Walbro fitted today - running fine - 20+ km tomorrow - will report.

[ptrcoco Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close ptrcoco]

Re: 98 Land Cruiser Troopy Conversion

Hi Fitian
I like the way your conversian job on the troopy looks like it was always ment to be.
i'm very interested in converting my 75 series landcruised to WVO but i'm not very mechanically minded. Would you be interested in doing a conversion on my vehicle.
Do you have a rough idea what it would cost me


Reguards
Peter

[Nuddy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nuddy]

Re: 98 Land Cruiser Troopy Conversion

2 Walbro's arrived today. Cost A$250 total inc' postage.
$125 each. Fitting tomorrow - will report.
Edit:
Walbro fitted today - running fine - 20+ km tomorrow - will report.

Walbro fitted - runs well.
I have now fitted my vac/pressure properly.
Previously I had just used a needle to make a hole in the hose to the IP inlet and inserted the gauge tube into there. I was able to measure a max' vacuum of 10 inches of mercury and assumed that 10 was the most the integral lift pump could 'pull'. Now I understand that the hose was leaking around where the gauge tube was inserted. Now I have fitted a tee piece and used a proper fitting to attach the gauge tube.
Now I am able to measure up to 14 inches of mercury.

Data from today:

On B50 startup 10"Hg max. 4"Hg at idle.

On warm veg without Walbro 8"Hg at idle.
14"Hg max (4000 rpm full throttle uphill 3rd gear).

On warm veg with Walbro 1.5 psi engine stopped. 1.5 psi at idle.
8"Hg max (4000 rpm full throttle uphill 3rd gear).

Conclusion: Although the walbro spec's say 10 psi it seems the best it can manage on veg is 1.5 psi. However this would seem sufficient as a safety buffer against fuel starvation.

I think the system without the walbro is marginal and it has been susceptible to fuel starvation.

[Nuddy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nuddy]

Re: 98 Land Cruiser Troopy Conversion

In view of the 7 psi max it is a good thing my walbro is not achieving its claimed 10 psi.
My troopy is a 1998 model with a 1HZ Toyota engine. I don't have any documentation with the vehicle, owners manual, workshop manual etc.
(anyone know of an online source for these?). So I don't know much about the engine nor the IP.
I have been assuming the engine is indirect injection. I have observed that some LandCruisers built before 1998 are direct injection, strange! is this correct?
I have been assuming the IP is a Japanese copy of the Bosch VE. Perhaps it is actually a Bosch VE built under licence?

[Nuddy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nuddy]

Re: 98 Land Cruiser Troopy Conversion

Final report (for a while at least) on fuel temp on the troopy:
Warming up (on diesel) the IP return outlet temp lags behind the coolant temp by about 10 degrees. Switching to veg at coolant temp 50 deg, return outlet temp 40 deg, warm up continues with the 10 degree lag maintained until coolant reaches 80 degrees and plateaus. return outlet temp soon catches up to coolant then continues to 98 deg while coolant stays at 80.
Conclusion:
Once the engine is fully warmed up the IP is heating the oil significantly above coolant temp.
During warm up the IP is actually cooling the oil.

2 projects now to take precedence, converting the Surf and developing a simple drying system.

[Nuddy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nuddy]

Re: 98 Land Cruiser Troopy Conversion

When driving for 15km. Do not bother changing over to wvo simply because you will end up saving hardly 1 litre of fuel.

At 12 litres/100km I will use 1.8 litres. Then the engine stays warm enough that I can re-start on veg and don't need to purge so the trip becomes 30km and 3.6 litres. Take off 2.5 km for warm up and purge leaves 27.5 km, using 3.3 litres.

[Fitian Was here Find all posts View Profile Close Fitian]

Re: 98 Land Cruiser Troopy Conversion

I am not a mind reader Paul, You original post indicated that it is 15 km. Sorry I should have guessed that you will stop for a short while and drive back.

It makes sense if you are not stopping for the whole day not to purge.

Look, I am not on your case if that is what you're thinking.

Enjoy your vehicle the way you like.

My respect,

[Nuddy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nuddy]

Re: 98 Land Cruiser Troopy Conversion

Paul,
It is your vehicle. Do what you like to it.

You obviously got the time and money to play around with the vehicle. Not sure now why you gave me the job to do.

As I said at the time, I was quite confident that I could do the job myself. My problem was time. I could have waited until I had the time to:
1. Get all the parts together and
2. Actually do the conversion myself.
If I did that I would still be waiting.
So I took advantage of Fitians kind offer to do both of those things for me.
I was pleasantly surprised with the price he quoted, only later did I learn how much he undercharges for his time and effort. The only cost in time for me was 2 Saturdays and doing without the vehicle for a week. If I was doing the conversion for someone else it would cost them 2 or 3 times as much.
So why did I get Fitian to do the job for me?
To get it done about 3 months sooner at very little cost.
All along I intended to develop and test the conversion for myself. As an engineer, how could I do otherwise?
I consider this forum a valuable source of information and try to give back as much as I can. I could keep quiet about my testing, development and ruminations but I feel I owe it to the forum to present as much info as I can.

[Fitian Was here Find all posts View Profile Close Fitian]

Re: 98 Land Cruiser Troopy Conversion

Thank you very much Paul.

Please receive my full respect.

Regards,